Jeff Schreifels:

Hey everyone, thanks for joining me today. Well, you're all in the thick of it and it's almost December. So I thought it'd be great today to have our most seasoned client experience leader join us to give you some tips for the month of December, to get a pulse on what frontline fundraisers are feeling right now, and also get her thoughts on what makes great fundraisers and not so great fundraisers.

 

So I have Diana Frazier joining us on the podcast. Diana has over 40 years of fundraising experience, and many of them as a frontline fundraiser herself. But for the last 12 years, she has been with Veritus working directly with hundreds of mid and major gift officers over her tenure. So let's have Diana join us, and let's get ready for some real talk. Diana, welcome.

 

Diana Frazier:

 Hey, Jeff. Thanks. Good to be here.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

All right, so it's now late November and we got December coming in. And you know how we always talk about it, Veritus back in August we were talking about, okay, are you ready for the last quarter? Because obviously this is the biggest fundraising time. But I wanna talk specifically around December.

 

If I'm a major gift officer or a mid-level officer, how do I win December? How do I be successful in December?

 

Diana Frazier:

You know, that's both a big question and a simple question in a lot of ways. Firstly, I want to say, I want to repeat something a colleague of mine said this week on a Veritus call to someone. And there's a lot of wisdom here. And if you can take this in and settle on this, I think it will help you. You don't need more time. You need more focus. And that's really Veritus in a nutshell, right? It's not about the time, it's about the focus. It's right there.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

That's good. It is.

 

Diana Frazier:

 So there's a couple things you can do here. You're coming into the last month. It is definitely crazy. And truthfully, there's only 15 calendar days that you really have to do things with before it starts winding down. So one thing you can do, take a quick inventory to be sure of what you have and haven't done already and then follow through. Just make that checklist so you can move through it.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

Doing this helps you relieve yourself of stress, of worrying in the back of your head, of what I didn't do. Just take the time, take an hour to sit down and do that. Did you report back on the impact of each donor's gift that give at this time last year? You're not talking about the whole year, you're really talking about this quarter, right? And then for your donors who do explicitly give October through December, review them. Who's behind in the goal you set? Do you know the story? Is there something you can do here? So take a little bit of time there.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah,

 

Diana Frazier:

 And then you can flip it around a little bit. if you want to focus on lapsed donors, people who gave in 2024 calendar year, but haven't yet given this year, turn a little focus there. What you're getting now is clear to do lists, so to speak, that just really helps you emotionally move through. So when we talk about you don't need more time, you need more focus, this will help you get there. Anytime I do that, the pressure just kind of starts falling off my shoulders. And I start.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Right.

 

Diana Frazier:

 Okay, now I can do this. I can check this off my list. I can do these three things today. I can do those four tomorrow. You're not focusing on every donor. And that's really important to remember. Another thing to think about as you're staring down the of the year is making sure your donors who use stock or donor advised funds, do they have the information they need to do what they have to do? Your broker information, the DTC number, the EIN number, all those things.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Great.

 

Diana Frazier:

organizations, it's important that the DAF gift be sent to a different physical place and other things just because of accounting issues. If it's a wire transfer, do you know that? So that you can be following up. Because what you want to do is actively keep your eyes open on is the gift in. If it's not, keep in touch with your donor. Because sometimes things are log jammed elsewhere. Donor advised funds have grown tremendously.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

 the sheer volume coming through Fidelity or National Philanthropic Trust or anything, that's something they're dealing with. And so those gifts come through later and later. So from a donor perspective, remember with DAFs, their contribution receipt has already happened. So it's not a tax incident for them. So that can drift into January or February on delays, which the money will still be there, but from a cashflow perspective, that might matter more to you. Remember, it's not a tax incident for the donor.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

 and

 

Diana Frazier:

 but on stock, that's also getting harder and harder. And this year may be a big stock year and brokers are gonna be backed up. And so anything you can do to help move that through is gonna be important. Another thing to think through is if you're still getting donor meetings, which I hope you are, really work to end those by December 15.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

 All right. Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

Yes, some donors may be willing to meet with you or come to an event or something like that, but really those meetings should be wrapped up by then because decisions are really made. And then finally, as you think about this time period, take inventory. Have you really communicated gratefulness? This is the time to do that. And I don't mean with a poinsettia or plate of cookies, although I would never turn down a good chocolate chip myself. just saying. But with real connection, are you showing

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

 with that real connection so the donor understands what they're a part of, what their gift is helping to make happen. Think about blocking two hours per day. Just take December 15th through December 23rd, two hours a day. That's 70 donors you can have if you're doing it a good clip. That's 70 donors you can really communicate gratefulness to. So that's something I would say there.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

 Yeah, those are all good. this is what you're having your folks that you're managing every day coaching. This is what they're doing every day. This is how they're.

 

Diana Frazier:

yeah. Yep, we look at what was expected, where are things at, what can you do to make a difference here. The people I'm working with have plans, so they're executing an existing plan. What I said before is really if you don't have a plan, if you never really mapped it out, you've got to stop and take those inventories. If you have a plan, you're working through it.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

 Yeah, good. Okay, now I want to kind of talk about overall what's going on with the fundraisers from your perspective. So what is the general state of mind from the frontline fundraisers that you're working with right now?

 

Diana Frazier:

Yeah, it's been a rollercoaster. Yeah, so let's talk about the environment first, because this is a difficult environment for non-profits. And it has been, it's been all year has been one thing or another. But what I'd say is remember, this sort of stuff happens cyclically. There's always going to be something external that presses in. So whether it's a government shutdown, the economy, COVID, world health crisis like that, there will always be something.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

 Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

 Professionally, Jeff, I've been through quite a bit, you mentioned, 40 years. So the 1980 recession, early 1990 recession, the dot-com bubble burst, 9-11, the Great Recession, what was that, 2007 to 2009, like that, that was an extended period of pain, right? And again, COVID and our current economic challenges, those are all things that you...

 

Jeff Schreifels:

 Yeah. Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

I have experience in my time. You have, and they can leave you feeling a little on edge, right? Maybe fearful, but it comes down to you in your fundraiser, you have to really think this through. This is the world in which you're functioning. This is the environment you and your donors live. Are you able to live within that? Can you stay focused? Are you filling your well so that you're able to give to others?

 

At this time of year on your busiest days, it's actually the most important time to do something each day to keep connected to the why of what you're raising funds for, the people or groups that you're serving, what your organization's causes. Even a 10 minute gratitude exercise will help you because it's all swirling around you and you just have to come in and settle and remember the why each and every day. That said,

 

Jeff Schreifels:

 Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

 I'm, you know, the fundraisers I'm working with that created a plan. I see confidence. I see joy. I see celebration. They're still working. Don't get me wrong. It's not that they're not busy, but they don't have that frenzy because they have anticipated things. They've gotten a lot done prior to October, November, December one, and they're still working their plan. But having that plan, so going back to the first thing I said, take the inventory if you don't have one, they're more settled and confident.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

 Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

 than others. For those that I work with who maybe I just started, they don't have a plan, they're definitely feeling frenzied and they're trying to get three or four months worth of work done in 30 days and really 15 days if you think about it. So that's where I go right back to very first thing I said. If you don't have a plan, stop and make a plan, not for the whole year, but for this month so that you know what to do.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

 Yeah, yeah. What I always say about this when people are like, well, what about the economy and all the stuff, the external stuff? say, well, we can't control any of that. We can't control it. But going back to what you're saying around the people that have a plan and how they're feeling empowered if you have a plan, that's the thing that you can control. Working that plan is all you can do. We can't control the state of the economy.

 

Diana Frazier:

Yeah. Yep. Yep.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

 We can't control government shutdowns and all of those kind of things. And it might very well affect the bottom line with fundraising. We don't know that. But all we can do as fundraisers is focus on our plan and building those relationships with our donors. That's all we can do. So that's why at this time of year, having a plan is so important because what I've noticed, and I know you've seen this happen, when someone doesn't have a plan, they're running all around. And yeah, because they have it in their heads and they're like, I got to do this, then this, you know, and they don't have it settled on paper somewhere or on their screen or in their CRM system. You know, it's like not there. And so it's all, then they wake up in the middle of the night going,

 

Diana Frazier:

or they're paralyzed or they become paralyzed. Mm-hmm.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

 I gotta do this and I can't sleep, know? Especially at this time of year, to have a plan, like I would say when, I think you would agree with me that, let's just say if fundraisers are listening to this and some of them don't have a plan for December and they're just kind of winging this thing, you have some time right now to map out what are you gonna do? I'd greatly suggest you create a plan now. to work yourself through December. Otherwise, you're going to be frenetic and you're gonna be all over the place for them.

 

Diana Frazier:

Yeah, and it doesn't have to be a huge heavy lift here. You could spend two hours focusing, find the donors to give it this time of year, focus on them, spend two hours, get your checklist and move on. This isn't a week long exercise of creating a plan.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

Yep.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Well, I want to take advantage of your experience and also know that you've coached over 300 frontline fundraisers since you've been with us all these years.

 

Diana Frazier:

Yep. A lot.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

 And so what I want to hear from you is what are some of the characteristics that make up the ones, like how do you tell if they're not going to make it?

 

Diana Frazier:

Yeah, well, I know you won't be shocked by this because you know me. The minute we talked about that this would be something you want to dig into, I went back through the list of all the people that I've worked with through times. And I kind of put them into three categories, if you will. The best, the good, and wrong job. There are people who are in the wrong job. Then I thought about it. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yes. I want to know what are the best and what are the worst? What are the characteristics of the best and the worst that you've worked?

 

Diana Frazier:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So as I think about it, I think about as a coach, I hone in on the best, and I found that we're about 65 people who, and I'm not, there are a lot of good fundraisers. I'm talking about people who are super exceptional and the best. And truthfully, I was not in this category per se as a fundraiser, because I was a better manager than I was a fundraiser. But number one characteristic, Jeff.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Hold on. I want to stop you right there for a second. First of all, I want to commend you for saying something like that and having the humility and vulnerability to say that, because most people wouldn't admit that they're not good at something. But we do with this all the time around the best frontline fundraisers and how managers sometimes take their best people and then they have to put them into management because that's all the way they can pay them better. And then they're a failure because frontline fundraisers typically, when they're really good, get results through their own efforts. And managers, and I've seen you and you're so good at it because you love getting results through others and empowering them. I can see it when you write in our celebrations, know, like you got to hear about this one MLO who

 

**Diana Frazier:** Mm-hmm.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

did this and you're excited about it because someone did something really great. And so that's a manager thing. I just wanted to call that out because I wanted folks to know that there is a difference between a really high level MGO and a manager. most of the time they're not the same kind of people.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

There is. Yeah, and picking up on that phrase is where do you do you want to get your results from your own effort? M.G.O. baby or mid-level office. Do you want to get your do you want to get results through other people? You're a better manager and you can be a hybrid. I was a hybrid. You a lot of my career I was a hybrid. Jeff, I just had a conversation with someone I used to work with at a university and I was her manager at the time and she's gone on into another role and she's had an incredibly successful fall quarter. She raised a gift that was the largest this

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

 organization has ever seen ever, biggest ever. And it's, it's a lot of money. So now she's pressed with in order to grow with the organization, they're saying, well, you really have to be a manager then. And she's like, I'm not a manager. I don't like managing people. And that's the pressure she's under in order to, it is extremely frustrating. So that's a very real problem that you got to, you have to know yourself.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

That's so frustrating. Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

And that comes through trial and error. You know, some of it comes through your experience.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

I mean, this is someone who's bringing in the revenue, a revenue generator, and now you're saying to this person, yeah, you're really great at that, but we're not gonna be able to compensate you as what you want unless you're a manager, only because that organization or whatever it was has had these HR policies that say the only way you can get more revenue for yourself is to become a manager and then therefore you're not going to be spending as much time working directly with donors. Yeah, I know you're really good at that, but if you want to make more money, that is just insane. It's just so insane to me that we do this.

 

Diana Frazier:

I know it's crazy. And when I say she had a good quarter, I'm talking about a donor gave a high eight figure figure out the zeros there, a high eight figure gift.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

That's insane. It's so short-sighted.

 

Diana Frazier:

it is. Yep. So as I think of who's the best of the best in that category. Yeah. So they have all four of these things I'm thinking. First is curiosity. This is the most critical characteristic of a fundraiser. Are you curious about your own organization, your donors that you're working with? Do you search for things in the CRM and here, there and everywhere to figure out to learn more? Are you proactive rather than passive?

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah, you're 65. Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

Are you really digging in to understand your donor and picking up on things and doing the research and just being interested in the person, really genuinely interested in the person. The next is strategic thinking. And what I mean here is they can listen to a donor talk and pull the threads together from maybe a variety of number of conversations and weave together a story.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

that helps the donor move forward with what they wanna accomplish. And some of the ones I've talked with, as a result of their skill in this area, they've helped the donor to actually realize what they care about. The donor didn't even realize it was when the gift office said, hey, I noticed this, I noticed this, I noticed this through line. And they're like, okay. Yeah. So that's that strategic thinking, that ability to build on your curiosity and then what do do with it? It's a curiosity for the sake of it, right?

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

 It's to go somewhere in your job. Another is they are truly good conversationalists. And by that, mean they listen, they reflect back on what they hear, they ask good questions, they're able to circle back on topics as you go through the conversation. And they also give of themselves in the relationship. It's not all pull, pull, pull, pull from the donor. They share of themselves a little bit too. They don't become the story. I don't mean that, but you need to...

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

you can give of yourself a little bit and be vulnerable. And that really, at the end of the day, when that conversation's over, whether it's on the phone or in person, if the donor leaves feeling satisfied and you actually leave feeling satisfied, you're good conversations. I just interviewed four people for a mid-level position, four back-to-back. I do it on the phone. don't do Zoom or anything, because I want to hear how people are on the phone. one of them was an outstanding conversationalist. Two of them were good and one, it just, it was hard. I don't know if it was nervousness or not, but I'm always looking for that. Can you hold a conversation? Are you, are you an interesting person enough to talk to? You do anything in your life. Do you hike? you do anything that you'd be willing? Yeah. Yeah. Cause that's how you relate to people. Like if you're out there doing this, that and the other, whether it's art or hiking or

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah. Yeah, well, no, that's true. Yes.

 

Diana Frazier:

you love your dog or whatever it is, the ocean, that kind of stuff sort of seeps into conversation. And then you get this reciprocal vibe going back and forth, right? And you become someone they want to talk to.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

That's a really good point. I haven't thought about that, but it's true. It's like being a good conversationalist means that you've traveled a lot maybe, or you've read a lot. People who read a lot, yeah, they're aware of what's all going on. And they can take something, I heard this, or I saw this, or I experienced this in this way.

 

Diana Frazier:

Red? Yeah. Screw wear. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And it's that in combination with curiosity is strategic thinking. Any one of these things is great. It's when they come together that to me is the best. And the last one is follow through. Do you do what you say you're going to do when you say you're going to do it? Because that really builds trust. You can be the best conversationalist in the world, but if you forget to follow up, so what? Right. So it's those things, curiosity, strategic thinking, good conversation list and follow through. That's what I've seen in the best. The best.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

 OK, so those are the qualities that you see in the best MLOs and MGOs. Now, what about the folks that just don't have it? What do you see there?

 

Diana Frazier:

 I always think of them and I think of, I want to value the person. I just think of them as in the wrong job, right? Yeah. And I had, I've identified 27 of those in that category, which was 9 % of the people I work with. So that's really not bad actually, if you think about it. And over time, as I was working with several of them retired, some stayed on, but most of them just went on to another job with another organization.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

 And as I followed them on LinkedIn, I can see the pattern repeated every two or so years in their job history. They just move on. They just keep moving on. And they're not recognizing that this probably is not, it's not the organization. They're not wired this way. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with understanding that and then finding where you really get joy. But there are two things that I see as an external consultant.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah. good.

 

Diana Frazier:

 One is going right back to that curiosity, but it's the flip side. It's lack of curiosity, Jeff. I can tell when they're talking to me, but it shows up, you know, like when they're going through training and there's not a single question.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

It's like pulling teeth to have a deeper conversation about anything. You ask what they're thinking or feeling or learning and it's kind of radio silence. They're not making connections to prior learning or current situations. And so where my brain goes is how in the world would we do in front of a donor? Like this is a softball I'm giving them to talk about the training they're going through, right? So I always worry about that.

 

And then if I'm talking with them and I actually know more about the donor than they do because I have the retention that yeah, they use a donor advisement or something like that in a coaching situation and they don't know, it's the same thing. They're just not putting the energy into understanding who this donor is, what makes them tick, what do they care about? So that's one thing. And the other thing is really right out of my external consultant relationship that I see right away, wrong job.

 

And I know you've seen it too, Jeff, but you can tell it right from the beginning how you're treated. So if I walk into the room and it's for training, there are those who come right up to me, introduce themselves, talk a little bit. They might even know who I am, but they will walk in and naturally do that. Then there are the others that sit there and kind of lean back in their chair and their arms are across their chest. And it's like pulling teeth to get them to respond.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

They seem bored. They seem unfriendly. And in coaching, they don't do the tasks that we've agreed on to do. And again, I wonder, what are they like in front of a donor? If I'm an external consultant that's been brought in to partner with them and work alongside them, and it's like talking to a wall, I do, I worry. so it's these two categories of people that I see eventually move on one way or another.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

 And that's sad.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

 It is.

 

Diana Frazier:

Because I do believe everyone has a place. Everyone has a place. And if your fundraiser listening right now and you're feeling this is you, I would say examine that. There is a place for you to have a very fulfilling career, but it just might not be in this role.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

That's exactly it. I think over my career of all the jobs as manager that I've had with people, and I've probably had to let go a dozen people in my career, which is a lot. And that's another story. But how I always approached it was, this is a good person.

 

Diana Frazier:

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

It's just that their skill set is not good for this particular job. There is something else out there. And so was always trying to get them one to see that and then follow through and help them find what that is. What is your skill set? Let's figure that out. And then let's see what we can do to help you find something in that area. that will help you be successful. it's so much I've had people come back to me after I had to let them go and say, that was the best thing that ever happened to me. Because I realized this wasn't a good job. I found something that was more suited to who I was. And I'm much happier now. And that's really what it's about. Right? We're not, you know, we're not.

 

Diana Frazier:

Lovely.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Oh, you're a terrible person because you can't do this job. And if you just did this, you'd be much better. Sometimes some of that, I mean, obviously training and all those things will help, but you're right that it's about who you are. It's like, what is inside of you? And some of those, you might not have those things that are needed to be really good at this kind of work. But it takes a lot of self-examination

 

Diana Frazier: 

It does. Absolutely.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Okay, now my final thing I want to talk to you about is around managers. you you've also seen a lot of good managers and a lot of bad managers in your time as a fundraiser and with Veritus. And what's some advice you can give to managers in how to help make their direct reports successful? Because that's really what a manager is supposed to be doing, making those people who are direct reports successful in their work. So what advice do you have for them?

 

Diana Frazier:

Right. I think start off with own that, that if you are a manager, that actually is your role is to help others achieve results. That is your role. So if you're there trying to achieve the results for them, you're not actually helping, right? So support your team. And that could take on a lot of different ways to examine that. But I do want to focus on two things that I see in management that are very difficult to work with. So if you're a manager, and you're a little bit suspicious by nature, check yourself. Find a way to hold yourself accountable to understand and appreciate the work your team is doing. Maybe keep a cheat sheet that says list of successes to offset your tendency to focus on mistakes. And read that before you have one-on-one conversations. Because if you are suspicious by nature, it is probably coming across in your voice. the kinds of questions you're asking, maybe even the way you hold your body. And what's happening is the individual team members starting to shrink back. They're feeling nervous, underappreciated. They feel like they're in trouble. And if that's true, that's really on you as a manager, honestly. Your job is to lead them, not do their work, lead them and help them improve. And the flip side of that, and this kind of goes to what you talking about, the people who may be in the wrong job. The flip side of that, If you're manager and you desperately work to avoid conflict or you're uncomfortable having hard conversations, so you keep meetings at a surface level, work on that because you're not helping an individual team member or the team as a whole by avoiding this. actually, making it worse. You're losing respect from the people who are saying, why can't they deal with this? And for the person who may need to make some changes, they probably know it and they're kind of lost in the wilderness too. So you're not helping them. So if you're not digging in with your team on a regular basis, make a plan to go deeper. So just like doing a plan for donors, right? Make a plan to go deeper with your team. Prepare good probing questions. Ask your direct reports what they want help with and follow through. This is really important stuff here because you are charged with helping them succeed. That's your actual job.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

So pay attention to how you're acting and seeing if you might be contributing to the problem here with some of your fundraisers. The other is, Jeff, we talk about this all the time, measure and reward behavior you want to see on your team. So I know in fundraising, the whole face-to-face visits a month, whether it's 10, 12, or 15, whatever the flavor of the day is for the number. Focus on meaningful connections, because that's really what you want to see happen, deeper relationships. So identify the things that you want to have happen, or the end behavior you want, and figure out what are the real metrics that support that. So if you have a struggle for the team to get activities into the CRM and do it correctly, help to find a solution rather than use your monthly KPIs like a sledgehammer, right?

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Thank

 

Diana Frazier:

 somebody didn't get all their meaningful interactions identified properly in the system, therefore they're a bad person. Move away from that and find out what's the real big problem behind that. I see a fair amount about tension about credits to the fundraiser for gifts, so work out a reporting solution that reflects shared work, whether it's major gifts and blend together or whatever it is. Bottom line, what is it that you really want to have happen? And back up to say what... KPIs can we have in place that help foster that and then support that. Don't use it as a hammer, use it as a tool, which might sound contradictory, but there are all kinds of tools. There tools that help shape and move things and there are tools that, I guess a hammer does help shape and move things, but when we think of a hammer, a sledgehammer, we think of breaking more. But that's what I would say there. Another is providing administrative support.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah, yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

I want you to, if you're a manager, really listen to this. You have a team of gift officers who are skilled at what? Conversation, relationship building, strategic thinking, right? Get them the help they need for mail merges, assembling packages, bulk data entry in the CRM, complex queries. Every hour you free up here, you will get back in increased revenue because now they have more time with donors. I'm not saying gift officers are exempt from doing some basic stuff. They do have to enter their conversations into the CRM. I don't mean that. But don't bog them down with stuff that could be handled by someone who's very skilled in that, right? And you could work much more effectively and efficiently on that task and then free them to be with people. So that's another, you know, provide that administrative support.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Right.

 

Diana Frazier:

The other related is solve these stinking back office problems. It always seemed to trip everybody up and it really becomes evident in December. we go back to measuring more behavior you want, have KPIs for data processing. That's not just about speed. That's about accuracy, right? It doesn't really help if five duplicate records get created every four days. That's just, it's more work down the road. Yeah, the money gets into the bank faster, I guess. I guess, but.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Diana Frazier:

to what end? Meanwhile, now you're spending more time and money on people solving that. Things like getting a donor advised fund gift that comes in, soft credit to the donor. Don't let that linger one, two, three, four, five, six months, which I've seen, that leaves the fundraiser spinning, right? So it's some of those back office things. So maybe ask your team, what are the things that really they struggle with and then start making a plan to chip away at them. And then the last, yeah.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah. Yeah. You know, going back, go ahead. Well, I wanted to make a on your KPI thing, because you talked about meaningful connections is a great one. I think the best one, though, is did they work their plan? OK, so first of all, you have to have a plan. But secondly, the working your plan and why this is important to management, because I only believe

 

Diana Frazier:

 Yeah, the last... Yup. Yup.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

 You can know if someone worked their plan if you're meeting with them on a consistent basis to see the progression of that plan being worked on. Because at the end of the day, that's all we were going back to talking about what we can control. You can control working your plan. If you've done that, most often you know that they meet their revenue goals or exceed their revenue goals. Now sometimes they don't.

 

Diana Frazier:

Yup. Yup.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

because you know major gifts is volatile. You might have one big donor that couldn't give what they did and that means your whole goal is blown up. That doesn't mean you failed as a fundraiser, especially if you can go back and show and your manager knows you worked your plan.

 

Diana Frazier:

Yep. Exactly right. That's exactly right. like measure reward, the behavior you want to see. Don't, don't put a bunch of stuff in there. That's busy work. I have things. My real final point. And this is, this is a big ask and it's a heavy lift, but it is one of the most important things that the management team needs to do. That is get solid donor offers identified written.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yeah. Exactly. Now what's your final point?

 

Diana Frazier:

photographed and in a number of gift ranges. So your team has something clear, tangible, and emotive to bring to a donor. If you don't do that, you're hampering them. Yes, some people are exceedingly skilled and can probably, you know, on the fly, bob and weave and do that sort of thing. But that's not the norm. And we don't really want them doing that. They can also make some mistakes when they're on the fly. But they really should have

 

Jeff Schreifels:

Yes. Amen.

 

Diana Frazier:

an array of things to bring to donors. So as they learn a donor's interest, you know, that's interesting, Jeff. I just read, you know, we just created this thing here in our program, or what's a program we've been doing for five years. I'd love to bring you up to speed on it. Are you open to a conversation? But they can't be spinning their wheels all the time, constantly chasing things down. I don't want to take away from their responsibility to be curious, but some things do need to be given to them. so they can bring it to a donor and then go deeper. They can't keep reinventing things all the time. It's not a good use of their time. It's not a good use of their skill either.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

 Yeah, yeah. Well, this has been a great conversation with you. I think everyone who is involved in major gift fundraising, mid-level fundraising, has got a little nugget they can take from this podcast. From what to do in December, to what are the best qualities in a major gift officer, mid-level officer, to what managers should do at this time of year to help help their direct reports succeed. So I wanna thank you for sharing your wisdom and caring so much about what you do. And I also wanna personally thank you for how much you care about the people that you're coaching every day. You care about them so much. You want them to see you.

 

Diana Frazier:

Thank you.

 

Jeff Schreifels:

are the perfect manager. that's what we provide at Veritus. We provide that ongoing coaching that someone's getting. They're getting good strategy from you, but you're a cheerleader also for them. You're cheering them on to be successful. And I really think every fundraiser should have something like that. If it's not their internal manager, then somebody from the outside coming in to kind of focus on them to make them successful. So I wanna thank you for that. And for all of those that joined us today, thank you for joining us and hey, we'll see you next time.

 

Diana Frazier:

 Yep.