Jeff Schreifels

Welcome to the show. I have Christopher Beck with me as my cohost for this episode. You all know Chris and Chris, this is going to be a great episode. By the way, I forgot, you've changed jobs since we last talked. You're now, why don't you just say what you're doing for a little bit.

Christopher Beck

Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm thankful. I'm over at Emory University. I work with a great group of people over there on the planned giving side of the house. So super thankful to be over there. shout out to Emory and the gift planning team. Yep.

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah, well, awesome. Well, as you know, fundraising has a fundraiser retention problem, right? And every time a fundraiser leaves, donor trust, momentum, and institutional memory leave with them. So hopefully, Emory does a really good job so that you are staying there. But today, we're going to ask some different questions. We're having a real dialogue and hearing from someone.

Christopher Beck

Yes, big time. Yeah

Jeff Schreifels

who helps companies and organizations address retention challenges. We have Daphne Valcin with Strategic Solutions and Executive Coaching. Valcin is a keynote speaker, trainer, and executive coach for more than 20 years. She has experience in serving nonprofits, executive leaders, development teams, and boards to strengthen the culture, governance, and organizational effectiveness. She has supported fundraising and advancement strategy for a multi-million dollar nonprofit through donor and prospect research, delivered board governance and board engagement training for multiple organizations, and led a small nonprofit board for over a decade, successfully guiding strategic planning and multiple successful crowdfunding campaigns. And as CEO of a boutique leadership development consulting firm, She has facilitated programming for more than 400, get that Chris, 400 individual clients and 200 organizations across four countries. Known for her practical results driven approach, Daphne, along with her team of coaches and consultants, help high potential leaders and teams expand their fluency up and down and across other organizations.

Christopher Beck

400, yes.

Jeff Schreifels

while strengthening communication confidence and culture. Wow. So are we ready, Chris? Let's bring Daphne in for some real talk.

Christopher Beck

And let's do it, Jeff, let's do it. Here we go.

Jeff Schreifels

Daphne, welcome.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

Thank you so much. Thank you for that wonderful introduction as well.

Christopher Beck

Yeah.

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah, so glad to have you on and why don't you tell us a little bit more about yourself. I know we had a lot there, but maybe you can add a little bit to that.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

Sure, so I've been working in different ways supporting nonprofits for over 20 years now, but what's interesting is that I fell into it in undergrad. I wanted to volunteer with an organization that served at-risk youth or under-resourced youth, and so I walked into the office of the director. And I said, hey, I saw you all at the summer fair for volunteerism. I would love to volunteer in your organization. And she started to ask me a whole bunch of questions. At the end of the conversation, she said, you have the job. And I said, what job? What job? And she said, you have the job. I'm hiring you. And I was like, ⁓ OK. So that was my first real job in the nonprofit world. And I worked my way up from student assistant.

Christopher Beck

Yeah

Daphne Valcin, MCC

I think at the end of my freshman year of college to assistant director by my senior year in college, but I actually didn't want the job. I was just trying to volunteer, but she hired me on the spot. So that is something interesting that not many people know.

Christopher Beck

Well, Daphne, you gotta know a lot of people, and Jeff can allude, he can attest to this, a lot of people, fall into this work. You know what mean? We kinda just fall into it, join the crowd.

Jeff Schreifels

That's awesome. Yeah.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

Yes, I agree.

Jeff Schreifels

Well, I'm really interested in today's podcast because we're going to talk about fundraiser retention. And this is a huge problem in the nonprofit space. We all know. mean, Veritus we've been talking about this for years and it doesn't seem that it's really been handled well and it's not getting much better. We see fundraisers leaving every 13 to 15 months. from nonprofits going from one nonprofit to the next. you know, it's a problem, especially if you're trying to build relationships with donors. That doesn't work. And, you know, recently, actually, Christopher and I were at the AFP icon in San Diego a few weeks ago. And I attended one of the emerging fundraising leaders ⁓ sessions.

Christopher Beck

That's right.

Jeff Schreifels

So there are all these young fundraisers in there. I was the oldest person in that room. I just wanted to see what are these folks saying? people got up one after another talking about how hard it was. Their managers were not supportive. Their job descriptions were so ⁓ loose that they were doing things that they had no idea that they were supposed to do as a frontline fundraiser. And one after another, and I was so moved by this, I got up and I spoke, said, look, I just first want to tell you it's not your fault because the whole thing was a lot of these young fundraisers were saying, you know, I just love this mission, but the work is so difficult because I'm, know, these managers are just on us all the time or they're They're never around. And I don't know if I need to stick this out, but I love the mission. And so that's a problem in the nonprofit world. Everyone loves the mission. And so they put up with stuff that they shouldn't be. But we should get into this discussion, Chris, and maybe talk a little bit about Daphne, in your organization or other organizations, how have you historically viewed fundraiser turnover overall?

Daphne Valcin, MCC

Yeah, so I think when it comes to organizations that I've supported ⁓ or leaders that I've supported who are fundraisers as well, I think that traditionally fundraiser turnover is viewed as an HR issue or as a staffing challenge when I think that what we need to do is view it more as a financial challenge for the organization or even a ⁓ strategic planning challenge.

Christopher Beck

Mmm.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

because when you have a fundraiser leave, not only does that impact your donor relationships and donor trust, ⁓ but also according to Gallup, replacing any employee can be an investment of about 200 % of their salary. So you have a mix of not only the salary, the hiring costs, the onboarding costs, ⁓ the ⁓ information that people had that they now... don't have coming into this new role, but you're also losing, it could be millions of dollars, right? Hundreds of thousands of dollars or tens of thousands of dollars that even could be a huge issue when it comes to those donor relationships. So, yeah.

Christopher Beck

Yeah, Jeff, you bring up a good point. So going back to AFP, had a chance to speak with Art Taylor, president of AFP Global. And he was talking to a group of young professionals that's in college who didn't know a lot about nonprofit work, but he asked me and Kim Miller to speak with them also about kind of our careers and kind of how we got there. And it was amazing to me. There are some very talented up and coming professionals I hear that are, like you said, they're hungry and they wanna do a good thing. They wanna make the world better. And they get in, to your point, they get into some of these shops, man, and it's like they're just being deflated. And I guess the thing that I'm constantly thinking about now, how the sector, how the fundraising sector has kind of normalized turnover. However, when we know,

Jeff Schreifels

Mm-hmm.

Christopher Beck

that trust is a main part of what we do. And we have to, I think, and this is my opinion, we have to really start thinking about the donor. And I think one of you guys said it earlier that when a fundraiser leave, the trust cycle starts all the way back over again. So then it leaves that donor feeling like, what is going on? You know what mean? So, but I think the sector, have to figure out, and we gotta start talking about it. And I applaud you, Jeff, for even. want to have this conversation. Daphne, I know you studied this stuff and you're going to share some really good insights, but for us today, we want to just get into it and just be open. We're not bashing anybody, not any organization. We're just talking about some real talk and what we can do to try to help stabilize this thing.

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah, exactly. ⁓ Well, Daphne. Tell me what would change in our budget or strategic plan if we started measuring that, as you were talking about, the direct financial impact of a lost donor relationship or stalled cultivation timeline. What would we actually change?

Daphne Valcin, MCC

You know, ⁓ I love solutions. So your question sounds like it's solution oriented. ⁓ So there's so many different things that can be happening within an organization that can help with ⁓ making sure that we're retaining individuals more. And here are a few. I put together just ⁓ a list of ideas for those who are like, what do we do? ⁓

Christopher Beck

Hahaha

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

So I'm gonna first go with like a general thing to keep in mind and then some more specific things. So some general things. ⁓ if you think about meetings, ⁓ mentoring, ⁓ and I would say even messaging, right? Those different things. So some M's, right? How are people being heard or not heard in meetings ⁓ is one thing to think about. Whose voices seem to be

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

you know, the most prominent, who are you inviting, right, to be heard when it comes to your meetings? The mentorship piece, I think, is more valuable than people think. And what I mean by that is those emerging professionals, like when Jeff was in the room with those professionals, what are the things that they need to know in order to be successful? They've shared specifically what their challenges are. How are we providing them with additional capacity? ⁓

Christopher Beck

Mm.

Jeff Schreifels

Mm-hmm.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

and like just additional, their additional ability to grow as professionals where they are right now within our organizations. So providing opportunities to grow through mentorship, because we also come with institutional knowledge and knowledge about how do we build that trust cycle with donors. And so if emerging professionals don't feel supported in that, or they don't feel like they know what they're doing, somebody at their organization has a wealth of knowledge and we would be willing to share it, but that relationship may need to be facilitated. And then with the messaging. So do emerging professionals feel heard? ⁓ Or do other professionals, right, at any ⁓ level in their seniority, do they feel heard? Do they feel like you are validating their experiences or the challenges that they have or the questions that they have? ⁓ There was a study that showed that

Jeff Schreifels

Mm-hmm.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

think it was 52 % of exiting employees share that their manager could have done something to prevent them from leaving. And another study, I believe by Gallup that said that 62 % of employees said that if their manager listened more, then they would have stayed, right? In their position. What does listening look like? Cause a lot of times we say, we don't have time for that. Like we don't even have time for our one-on-one check-ins. But if someone has a concern to validate it in your response, and then identify the action step moving forward, whether it's something that they can do or something that you'll do to at least consider whatever it is that they're sharing. So messaging, ⁓ meetings, and mentorship, if you want like a quick acronym. Yeah, three, right? But if you're getting to more specific things, mentorship, operationalizing it, which means like specific program.

Christopher Beck

Hahaha

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah, the three M's, the three M's. Yeah.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

Anonymous surveys, I call them wellness surveys, I've launched in organizations. So that way you're really getting people to share anonymously what is it they're thinking through, realistic workload expectations would change with strategic planning, ensuring salaries are on par with the industry or above, but salaries aren't it, right? So even if you have a great salary for your employees, that's not enough. Leadership accessibility, skip level meetings, so meetings that people can have. with people even beyond their manager that are structured in a way where they feel heard. ⁓ Professional development budget, if you have that ability for each team member. And I'm here to say, I had a thousand dollars, I remember, in my PD budget and I used my $1,000. And I'm grateful for it. Like I remember that I had that and I remember that my boss said, yeah, you want to go to that conference? Go. The conference was about speaking, I remember, right? ⁓ The last conference that I went to with that budget so professional development budget I have a connection to the organization and a gratitude and even a loyalty even based on that recognition policies ⁓ org-wide or within teams or recognition practices, right? ⁓ Operationalized support system. So if someone feels alone, how do they get support? Is there a time in your team meetings or people can talk to someone next to them and share maybe a case study? ⁓ Challenge that they're facing and move towards a solution and then lastly last two things ⁓ hybrid or remote work opportunities when there when you can do that and An article that I was reading shared a few reasons why you might want to think of that Neuro divergent employees, right? people who actually cannot be at their best when there's too much going on You have people who have disabilities some are sharing some may not share with you. Some may have heavier personal responsibilities

Christopher Beck

Hmm.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

I know my generation, I'm a millennial. We are now caretakers, some of us for our parents, but then we're also caring for others in our house, extended family possibly, or other needs that we don't know about. And then lastly, succession planning. I love succession planning. And I wish I remember this stat, but some low number of organizations actually have a succession plan in place. And what I mean by that is if Lisa leaves, is there someone to replace her? And also, ⁓

Jeff Schreifels

Mm-hmm.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

let's say is James being prepared for a position beyond his own ⁓ or for an expanded scope where he feels like he is being developed in his role, right? So I know I said a lot, but if we go back to the basics, the three Ms.

Christopher Beck

first of all, great insight, right? But two things stuck out to me. And one of the things is from John Maxwell, he talked about, he said, he doesn't replace leaders until that person can replace themselves. And I think a lot of times, I think we try to promote people. You know what I mean? Like when we're not ready. So what am I going with this? I'm talking about, as we talk about retention, you know what I mean? So we, let's promote this person, but have you thought about who's going to backfill this person? Cause if not, or if you promote the wrong person into this person's spot, that's going to be a loss. And if you promote a person too early, you, so that's one thing that, as you were thinking that, that, that quote came to me, then also listening, as we know now you talk about, we talk, and this kind of is around the younger generation right now, respectfully, you know, with five different generations being in the workforce now, and everybody tends to work a little bit differently and needs certain things, I think it's very important to listen right now to not only just the younger folks, respectively, but to everybody. And I think I've been doing some research also on kind of this, It's called the commander style of leader versus the connector style of person that's out here in the workforce right now. And the commander style of leader was like that late 90s, early 2000 leader where they kind of live from a very different style of leadership. And the article talked about they lead from a place of a need to know basis. I'll tell you if you need to know, right? But in this connector world now that we're living in 21st century with five generations being in the workforce, You can't lead like that. So my personal opinion on this, I think we have some leaders that are still, and I say this respectfully, that are leading from a very late 90s to early 2000 style of leadership that's also contributing to burnout and also making people leave this whole 18, toward 18 month turnaround of people leaving, you know what I mean? So I think those are things, as you were talking, just kind of stuck out to me as well.

Jeff Schreifels

Daphne, all those things that you lifted off were amazing. When you go into an organization who's called you in and said, we've got some issues around this, how open really are they to actually implementing these things? Or are they just giving lip service to it?

Christopher Beck

Mm.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

Yeah, that's a great question. I think that organizations are in different places, of course. And as Christopher was talking, one of the things that came to mind is when you promote the wrong people into management roles, it can really negatively impact the culture. And then a decision to implement one of these things can be a little bit harder. because you have people, maybe you have a whole bunch of managers and leaders who are in that commander model and are saying, get over it. We have work to do. ⁓ We have a mission. It's not about you. It's about these, whatever it is, kids or elderly folks who are serving or the marine life that we're saving. Like it's not about you. We don't care what you're feeling. So you do have that, right? But then you do also have

Christopher Beck

Yeah you

Daphne Valcin, MCC

⁓ People who maybe they start there, but when they're exposed to new information, whether at a conference like you all were at or through a coach or a speaker or an article, then they are open to shift. And I think a few things make people open to shift. One of them is the financial ramifications. Like if you really are worried about the individuals or the ⁓ cause that you're serving. then you're going to be so serious about retention because it impacts the fruit of your labor as an organization. But in other cases, people are very open. I think the thing that is the most challenging, no matter how open organizations are, is it's overwhelming to think that there's so much to do to shift the culture, which is why I started with like, let's just go to the basics, the basic things, right? And then I would say, maybe you're implementing one thing at a time. You're doing your wellness survey. That's it. Somebody create a survey, do the wellness survey, get the information. Then you're integrating something into your team meeting. The meeting is already happening. All you're doing is taking 15 minutes, right? So if you implement things little by little, I think then it's less overwhelming for the organizations that want to shift. ⁓ and for the organizations that need to shift, but are having some challenges, I feel like.

Christopher Beck

Mm-hmm.

Jeff Schreifels

Mm-hmm.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

There has to be something that ⁓ helps to speak to the motivations of those who would be doing the shifting. What would motivate them to shift? And if you can capture that motivation and address that motivation, then you can start movement forward.

Jeff Schreifels

That's really good. Let's shift now a little bit to specifically fundraisers of color. Besides all the, you know, just overall with fundraisers and how it's hard to retain them, fundraisers of color also experience another level here of...

Christopher Beck

Hahaha

Jeff Schreifels

bad management of ⁓ not understanding ⁓ white managers, not really understanding ⁓ black culture, ⁓ or people of color, the issues that they come into it. And why don't you talk a little bit, Daphne, about what you've experienced in organizations regarding people of color and the additional ⁓ work that needs to be done there.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

Thank you so much for asking that question. Of course, that's a loaded question. And I think there's so many things that exist with people of color and challenges that they might go through in organizations. And here are a few that I'll share. So one is. We're of course, we're not a monolith, right? People of color or black people, for example. But depending on where we come from, it may have been okay. Let's say in my case, for example, it was okay for me to be a certain way with my friends and my family. I might speak a little bit faster. I might speak a little bit louder. ⁓ I might be using words that people don't.

Jeff Schreifels

Right.

Christopher Beck

Thank

Jeff Schreifels

you

Daphne Valcin, MCC

Understand because people only from Miami. I'm from Miami, Florida live in Georgia only people from Miami know them so But I was a straight-A student right I graduated most likely to succeed from high school I spoke at my college graduation like lots of honors But then when I went into the workplace, I was not prepared to fit With the culture of some of the majority white spaces that I was in

Christopher Beck

You

Jeff Schreifels

the Mm-hmm.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

I had to completely shift literally the way that I spoke and little nuances that I didn't learn because my neighborhood was very diverse. I'm Haitian American, first generation American, lots of people from the islands, lots of African-American individuals, small amount of Jewish people at my school and white students, small amount. So I went into the workplace, moved to Washington DC, for example.

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

and I just didn't know how to connect with my colleagues as well. They thought I was cute. They thought I was cute, but cute doesn't always get a promotion. I was doing hard work, excellent work in the background that impacted a lot of the organizations that I worked in, but I didn't really know yet how to fit. So that looked like a lot of stressors in a lot of different ways.

Jeff Schreifels

You

Daphne Valcin, MCC

but it also even financially impacted my ability to advocate for my salary. The first salary that I asked for was 40,000, no, 30,000, because I had never had a real job. And I was like, 30,000? And the woman who spoke to me was like, that's it? She said, no, no, no, no, Thank God she gave me a salary to shoot for. But that salary could have been higher, right? If I would have had, my mom went to college, 40 years old.

Jeff Schreifels

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

is when she graduated, my dad didn't finish college. If I would have had individuals who had that knowledge, I would have asked for more. If I would have had individuals who had experience for me ⁓ to be able to speak the language, I would have been able to speak it. in some of the workplaces for the people who are listening, they don't know how to connect possibly with people of color who are coming from different cultures. One of the greatest things that they can do is to mentor. is to say, hey, I noticed that you did this. Here's another way to do that that would be even more effective. Or let's talk about your developmental goals. Like, what is it that you would like to do in the future? You don't know. Well, here are some things that I see for you. So that's one, like, how do you fit in the culture? I think that sometimes assumptions are made based on people's styles. So for me, as a Black, African-American, woman of color, whatever, I... I fit all those things. So for me, my parents told me to do things in excellence and with perfection and that I needed to go into wherever I was going into and be five levels above anything that people have ever seen. So one of the ways that translated in not a good way was I would go into workplaces ready to work. No time for small talk, which I would call connecting talk now. No time for building rapport. No time to go socialize after work.

Jeff Schreifels

you

Daphne Valcin, MCC

because I'm here to do things in excellence. So if you interacted with me back then, you would maybe make the assumption that she doesn't like me. I mean, I was being nice though, but I just wasn't making a lot of time for those connections. So maybe she doesn't like me because she's not building a rapport She's not going to these social events with us. But it's because I was groomed to go above and beyond and I had no idea that was part of work culture. So for a black woman, That could mean that she is labeled as, well, she's not a team player or she doesn't know how to ⁓ connect or whatever it is. So there's assumptions made based on cultural expectations that people are bringing into the workplace that they just don't know exist. And unless people are talking or asking questions or saying, Hey, do you prefer to go straight into the meeting? Or, know, like to spend some time building rapport.

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

at the beginning, would that work for you? Would you want us to leave that at the end? Or, hey, I noticed that you don't go to the happy hours. Is there a reason why? ⁓ OK, I'm just curious. No problem. I respect that. Whatever it is, it's important. So it all comes back down to there are things that people are bringing into the office that deal with cultural expectations, experience, backgrounds, even trauma in some cases.

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

And unless there's some sort of conversations that are happening and an acknowledgement that, this person may just be different than me, those can create people leaving, people not getting promoted, assumptions being made, labels being placed, even if that person is a top fundraiser. Cause every job I've had, I try to knock it out the ballpark. But I, there were just some things that I didn't know going into the workplace.

Christopher Beck

Well, Daphne, listen, you, man, so much, so much again. So two things come up again for me when you talk early, going back to listening and having those one-on-ones or just talking because they're the multiple generations that are in the workforce today. that piece that you just spoke about right there, the mentorship piece is even more meaningful now with leaders and their, you know,

Jeff Schreifels

You

Christopher Beck

and their staff, you have to talk to understand those culturally differences, you know what I'm saying? So if you're not doing that, it's easy to think, like you said, that person is snobbish or they kind of puffy or whatever case may be. So I want to echo that. But then you talk, I want to talk a little bit about being a black male in this. And that's one thing that we do with Mocid, for those who don't know, Mocid is a affinity group under the umbrella of AADO, which is led by Ms. Birgit Burton. African American Development Officers Network over 6,000 members strong. But that's one thing that we talk about a lot in MOCID with the men right now. ⁓ A lot of men of color, particularly black men right now, are kind of in this ⁓ unique space who they're trying to talk through, know, having conversations with their bosses who may not feel comfortable talking with them about May it be salary, may it be just kind of, hey, you said this comment, you know, that made me feel a certain way, you know? And so we are coaching a lot of guys through that right now. So most of it right now, you know, that's, again, that's one of things that we're really dialing in on now is mentorship and even talking to, because one thing we're trying to do right now, there's a lot of guys right now that I know personally, they're like really on the fence. Like, I might be leaving this. Like I might be leaving this profession. And so we're trying to really like, no, like you're really talented. Let's just talk through a plan. And the other piece that I do want to give a shout out to some of my white brothers and sisters who are hiring managers who have reached out to me via LinkedIn just to even have a conversation about, and these are people that I know so we can have real dialogue, right? And so, and I will always tell them, and they know this, hey, look, if you have a staff of color and you don't really know kind of how to, you you got something you want to say, but you feel like it might be a little ouchy, hey, I mean, they'll reach out, you know, and I'll kind of walk them through it, but. I tell them all the time, thing that you cannot, like you cannot not talk to them or run from the conversation. Because that, but you have to come, you have to have a conversation about it. And I'm grateful for those who've reached out and things luckily have turned, just from having that conversation, even though was a little ouchy, it turned around and that person stayed and it opened up a whole new relationship for this staff and this leader. So I want to add that context.

Jeff Schreifels

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

May I add a tool that individuals can use if they're having difficult conversations to build a bridge? that be helpful? Wonderful. So there's a book called Crucial Conversations, which I love and is helpful for having difficult conversations within organizations, within families, ⁓ any kind of entity. It shares that the people who are most successful in organizations, and this includes managers and leaders, are those individuals who can have difficult conversations.

Christopher Beck

Yeah, sure, please.

Jeff Schreifels

Mm-hmm.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

So there's a tool called AMP in that book, AMPP. And I think it's just so practical and helpful for how to have these hard conversations that A is ask for their stories, ask questions, right? So the other day when you shared this, I feel like there was a shift in the room. I'm curious about if this came off as negative to you, right? That's the ask for their stories. The M is for mirror. So this is you paying attention to how people's responses are to different things. So if you said, ⁓ Jim, finally you decided to come to the happy hour with us and Jim looks mad at you, you can say, Hey Jim, you know, I feel like what I said may have come off as offensive. I feel like you looked a little bit frustrated, right? You're, you're labeling, which can be tricky, but you can say that and that can help open up a conversation.

Christopher Beck

You

Daphne Valcin, MCC

If you want to play it safe, you could say, felt like there was a little shift when I said that. Is that right? So mirroring is looking at how this person's emotional response is. again, ask a question, get curious. Then the next P is paraphrase. So if someone is saying, I feel like I'm not heard in these meetings. Paraphrasing is saying, so what I'm hearing you say is that you feel like. your voice isn't being heard in meetings, or you're feeling like I'm not hearing you, or others are not hearing you, we're all not hearing you in these meetings. So research shows that paraphrasing can kind of bring the energy down that's negative, that's not contributing to the conversation. And then lastly, prime, which is offering ideas. And I think that's one of the biggest complaint, whether it's emerging professionals, people of color, experiencing issues in the workplace, offer an idea, hey.

Jeff Schreifels

Mm-hmm.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

Would it be more helpful for us to, instead of doing happy hours and having you come there to maybe sometimes in the middle of the day, go out for lunch? Or what if we have like a miniature golf course in the office? Like what, what do we need to make it easier for you to create these connections? Because Jim, I'm here to tell you, if you want to get to the next level, I think it's important. If we want to get together as a team and be connected, we have to have these, I think we have to have these kinds of connections.

Jeff Schreifels

Those are really good. I I I can see how those practical tools could really help leaders and managers have better conversations. But I also think that, and I'm speaking on behalf of white folks here, that we need to do a better job of and do the work to figure out, to understand, I should say, how our whiteness Who what are what whiteness is and what our white how whiteness is perceived. We walk through the world like we own it. we don't consider how other people look at situations from different backgrounds. We just come in it from our perspective because that's how we grow up. We're we're it is just like we don't think about issues that. you might think about at all. But in order for for us as leaders and managers in who are white to be open to having these hard conversations, to have to create environments that are safe, we need to do the work to understand how we walk in the world and how it's perceived. And there's so we need to do that work. I remember personally Having to do that work, you know, even though I would be, I consider myself, you know, this progressive white guy all my pretty much all my life, marched on Washington, did all this stuff, right? So I'm like this progressive white person. But, you know, when the George Floyd stuff happened, when he was killed and all that surrounded that. It really made me look at those issues around not just equality and how I look at things, but also around equity. But I did a lot of work. thinking about my own whiteness and how I walk in the world and how it's perceived. And what can I do differently? How can I think about my place in this world?

Christopher Beck

Okay.

Jeff Schreifels

And doing all of that work helped me be much more open and understanding and aware of how Daphne might perceive something, or how Christopher might perceive something when we're all in the same meeting. Whereas before I would never even think that you would think anything is wrong, or something's not right. And I would challenge all leaders and managers to really do that work. Because if you don't do that work, you're going to be offend you'll take you'll get defensive. You know, you'll ⁓ you not know how to create those safe environments. You'll not know how to have those hard conversations. ⁓ and personally, what I did was I actually listened to Podcast series called by Seen on White. Seeing White. It's called Seeing White by Scene on Radio. It was a, and it went through the history of the United States and all the stuff and how this where we are today. And it enlightened me as a white person to finally see my whiteness. And It was a game changer. ⁓ and I know there's books and other things that us white folks can can get into and read. ⁓ but we have to do that work. I just needed to say that because it can't be, it it can you can use strategies, but if you don't have the context, if you don't do that work, those strategies aren't going to get so far.

Christopher Beck

So Jeff, I I want to jump in. So I I I can truly appreciate that, you know. And I would tell you, you know, when you and I first started talking, you know, I could tell even then you were on this, for lack of better words, this journey, right? And the more that we talked, it got to a point where I said, man, this guy, he's he's really leaning into this, right? And just, you know, again, real talk, when when the unrest and all those things happen, most

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah.

Christopher Beck

people of color, black folks, we pretty much knew, okay, sadly, this is some low hanging fruit type stuff, right? But the real work is gonna begin after all the noise settled. So you so you fast forward now

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah.

Christopher Beck

You know, we pretty much know the people that are really leaning into this work, like really leaning into it. And again, it's so everybody has their own choice. It's fine if you don't want to lean into it, that's fine too. But we pretty much know the ones that are have taken in, like you and some others that I know have taken a real deep introspective look at themselves and like, okay. I can't change the world, but what can I do in the space that I walk in and really make it better? And so I think that's that's that's pretty much all a lot of people want, right? So everybody has their own, you know, it's a free country, you can you can think and feel how you want to, and that's totally good. But we're just saying from a from a development and fundraising perspective, the demographics are shi have has shifted, is shifting as we speak, and it's just the old methods of doing it when kind of one demographic dominated everything, that's not gonna work without you doing without you leaning into some type of without you doing the hard work right now. So yeah. Yeah.

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah. I agree. Yep.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

Yeah. And I think when it comes to interactions between white people and black people specifically, I think it's important to know to note that there are ⁓ black individuals that you're working with who have experienced maybe challenges associated with race before they've gotten into your office. So ⁓ in grad school, one class that I took shared that black people are very likely to have experienced a racist interaction by the time they're in kindergarten. ⁓ And for me, ⁓ I remember in preschool the teacher said, if you want your eyes to be pretty like Jennifer's, who is white, she said, eat your green beans so they can be pretty like hers, which implies I am ugly, my eyes are ugly. But Jennifer is beautiful, right? And then in kindergarten, somebody, I'm Haitian American, somebody, white person came up to me and shook my hand and said, Congratulations, you dirty Haitian.

Jeff Schreifels

Mm-hmm.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

Kindergarten girl, imagine little girl being sent to school, like this is a safe space. ⁓ and somebody says that to me and I'm still developing my identity. I probably didn't even know like to call myself Haitian American or black or anything, right? And then family members have said like white people are like great and make sure you behave well around white people, white people are better than us, they have more money than us, like they're so successful. ⁓ which what does that tell you about yourself?

Christopher Beck

Mm.

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

And then in more formative years as a young adult, I've had ⁓ white colleagues to tell me they thought that all black people danced a certain way. That was inappropriate. All black people. All black people speak a certain way. So they're like, You speak differently than other black people. ⁓ all black people speak a certain way. Right. but just and even when I told them I got into the school, I got into my my undergrad UF, someone said it must have been affirmative action because my my child didn't get in. ⁓ and so

Christopher Beck

Ha ha ha ⁓

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

And I'm like, my gosh, that's crazy because she didn't even know my GPA. 5.15, by the way, in high school. but still, so she that was crazy case, right? So sometimes people are experiencing sub subconscious ⁓ ideas of who black people are that they may not have even vocalized. Thank God my colleagues were able to share things. So I was able to, in a very kind way, educate them. That no, we don't all dance alike or talk alike, or yes, I got good grades.

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

all those things, but the so what we want to feel in the workplace, in my opinion, right, is we wanna feel that we're being treated as fairly and as kindly or as professionally as anybody else. I think that can be felt. And I would go with what Christopher said about like we know when people basically are allies, you can feel when they're not, especially when you're in one room and you notice that people are being treated differently. And so I think that's something that everybody can do that's listening is think about are you treating everyone with a level of respect and fairness ⁓ and listening that they are receiving well, that they're feeling like they're valued in the workplace. And another action step everybody could take too ⁓ is allyship is also about putting opportunities in front of people who may not usually get them, maybe because of how we think about them subconsciously.

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah. Yeah.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

⁓ but I think it was over 90% of women, for example, say that they have been promoted into where they are because of a mentor, because of mentors or sponsors. So sponsor and mentor equip all of the people around you. ⁓ but know that especially with black people, we may already be coming feeling like we're not well positioned to be able to be promoted or we don't have the relationship capital. We don't know how to engage some of us.

Jeff Schreifels

Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

if you're coming from like my background, ⁓ with you thinking there may already be some sort of tension there, so put in extra effort to be an ally and to mentor and sponsor.

Jeff Schreifels

Mm-hmm. Exactly. Yes.

Christopher Beck

So so Daphne, I you know, this is a question that I've thought about. for those who are still trying to still doing the inclusive work right now, ⁓ let's talk about how inclusion can be used as a strategic asset. So, how do you think I mean I know when I think about that, and again, it goes back to what Jeff said about doing the work. If you think about doing the work and you understand that. Inclusion, it kind of when you have a staff that's really diverse, men, women, not just color, but all the everything, you now position yourselves to tap into a lot of other different markets that you just don't. And and by the mere fact of this person may be LGBTQ or Hispanic or Asian American, when that person go in goes into that room and speaks to that community. That's one level that's already you've kind of and respectfully have already won because you can speak the language of that community. But I think when you don't have that, and and I'm not saying I want to be clear to the audience, I don't think I'm not saying that you only can be a black person, speak to black people, white people can only, you know what I mean? But I'm just saying it just opens up a different avenue of comfort level with that group. So, but I want you, if you don't mind, can you speak to that?

Daphne Valcin, MCC

Sure. So people who are different, coming from different backgrounds and different perspectives, bring different approaches to engaging, right, with prospective donors and members of a community. ⁓ and there's also somebody I I saw some a post the other day that was saying in certain communities and they said New Orleans, for example, certain groups of people of color, when you speak to a person initially, you speak as if that's your best friend. So I might have even spoke to Christopher like at the first time I met him like, you rest this dead. How you doing? Okay, yeah, it's cool. Yeah. So you have all these people with the different perspectives and background coming at your donors in ways that are well received by them, right? ⁓ whether it's personality styles or different cultural backgrounds or different experiences, you also have them coming to the table when you're talking about your strategies.

Christopher Beck

Yeah.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

your calendar of events and initiatives that you're doing, what are the different approaches that would really expand the amount of people that we're able to have as donors? And then of course, what I love how Christopher goes back to often is retention. So when you have retained individuals who have really good relationships with all kinds of donors that are in your donor pool that allow your organization to thrive, when you're retaining those folks, Those donations can be consistent. They can even grow when you're not retaining. Then you have people in the community questioning: is this a safe place? Is this a good culture that they've been working for? They might even call the folks, folks who have left and say, hey, I found your information. Should I continue to donate or to contribute to this cause? Because I was donating because of our relationship, right? So it's strategic in your approaches being more versatile, more diverse, more expansive.

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

⁓ where you're able to connect in different kinds of ways because of the perspective people are bringing to the table and approaches. But then it's also strategic because you're not ⁓ experiencing loss of donors, loss of relationships, loss of the information that your staff members have with them that that's super valuable if they're leaving. So those are just a few different ways that I could see ⁓ inclusion being a strategic asset.

Christopher Beck

Death, I do want to touch on one other you you mentioned something about people giving to people. And I and I know and and I say this with all due respect to our organizations. I know people think that, they give them an organization because they love it. And they probably do, but you said something that was so key. People give to people. I and I know, man, that is such that's one of the first things that that I learned when I first got into this work. People give to people. I remember.

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah.

Christopher Beck

⁓ my first organization that I worked for, we were we were twenty five hundred dollars down away from my making our goal for the first time. I just got into development work and I was I didn't and I had ran out of donors to call. I was just but one was so close, right? Wanted to make my chairman happy. And I called this one guy, just call him he was a white guy. Called to ask him for advice. I said hey XYZ donor, we are this much away from our goal. I'm just stuck. And he said, Well, how much is it? And I told him it's like 2500 bucks. He said, Hey, put me down for it. I was like, huh? He's like, Yeah, put me down for it. He was like, Yeah, I believe in you, man. He Look, we're gonna he You the first one that have gotten us this close in a long time. So just put me down for it. He said, I got you. I was like, whoa. So that was real time. Yeah, he he believed in the in the organization at the time. But I but again, I've called and asked for advice, but when he Hey, I believe in you and what you're doing for this area. I was like, Wow. So

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah.

Christopher Beck

So this real talk.

Jeff Schreifels

Yeah, that's good. That's really good. Well, Daphne, this has been a great conversation. really heady stuff and really good. ⁓ I really appreciate your insight, your wisdom, your passion for this. It's been ⁓ amazing for us to listen to you. If folks wanna get in touch with you and get help, how do they do that?

Christopher Beck

It has been.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

Well, firstly, thank you so much, Jeff. I appreciate you. And I just want to again ⁓ piggyback off of what Christopher said. You are doing such amazing work. And I would speak on behalf of Christopher and say, we can tell it is so authentic and passionate and thoughtful and intentional. So thank you for that. ⁓ and then how people can connect with me, you can find me on LinkedIn ⁓ under my name, Daphne Valcin if you go to daphnevalcin.com it'll take you right to my website as well. for you to learn more about the work that I do at Valcin Strategic Solutions. so those are some of the best ways to get in touch with me.

Jeff Schreifels

Great. Well, I hope a lot of folks take advantage of that. Cause you're amazing. And Chris Christopher, again, great questions, great insight. Appreciate you. And ⁓ for all the folks listening, thanks for joining us and we'll see you next time.

Christopher Beck

Yes, she is. Yes, she is.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

Thank you so much

Christopher Beck

Thank you. Sounds good. Thanks everybody.

Daphne Valcin, MCC

See you see you then.