Bringing Your Authentic Self to Your Work

Jeff Schreifels  

Does your organization encourage you to bring your authentic self to the workplace? Or do you find that you automatically self-censor during work hours? Many employees say that their workplace culture has created an environment where they’re not comfortable or do not feel safe, bringing their authentic selves to work. And this is particularly damaging in fundraising, where you need to bring a certain amount of vulnerability because of the deeply personal nature of your work with donors. To help promote authenticity in the non-profit space, we’ve invited two special guests, Paul Towne and Rachel Wyley, to guide us along this journey towards authenticity.

Recorded  

Welcome to the Nothing But Major Gifts podcast from Veritus Group featuring Richard Perry and Jeff Schreifels. Twice a month, we bring you the latest and best thinking about major gift fundraising so you can develop authentic relationships with your major donors. Here are your hosts, Richard and Jeff.

Jeff Schreifels  

Welcome to the podcast today. I’m Jeff Schreifels, and I’ve invited Karen Kendrick, our Senior Director of Learning, to co-host today’s episode with me. One of the core principles of The Veritus Way is our belief that having a culture of philanthropy is key to your success. Your culture permeates everything and impacts your donors, staff, and community. And culture has a major influence on staff retention and happiness. With turnovers being such an extreme challenge for the non-profit sector, it’s really important to evaluate the cultures in our organization to see how they may be excluding or negatively impacting your staff. So to help us understand this more, Karen and I have invited two special guests to join us today. Paul Towne spent more than 15 years in corporate fundraising and is now an executive search consultant at Cooper Coleman. And Rachel Wyley has been in fundraising for many years and now runs her own agency called Culture Kinesis. Paul and Rachel have been friends and collaborators for nearly five years. Welcome to you both.

Rachel Wyley  

Thank you. Happy to be here.

Paul Towne  

Hello. Thanks so much for having me.

Jeff Schreifels  

Yeah, we are excited. Yes, we are. All right. So, Paul and Rachel, I’d love for each of you to share more about yourself and your work with our guests. So Rachel, why don’t you start us off first? 

Rachel Wyley  

Yes, I’m happy to thank you, Jeff, and Karen, for having us. My name is Rachel Wyley. As was said, I am the CEO and founder of an agency called Culture Kinesis. And our focus is cultural reimagination and supporting both organizations and individuals to do the work that we believe comes before you start diversity, equity and inclusion, the mindset work, the unlearning work, the re-education work and the community building work that really supports you to be able to do culture. Well. As was stated, I’ve known Paul for quite some time. Paul is one of my favorite people as are Karen and Jeff. Just happy to be here. Thank you.

Paul Towne  

Great. And I’m Paul Towne. I currently work in executive search and talent acquisition. And I help non-profits and social sector organizations of all sizes, fill mission critical roles with exceptional talent. I actually joined Cooper Coleman after working in corporate fundraising, for some of the world’s most impactful organizations, including care, UNICEF, and the American Red Cross. Unlike other firms, we place a special emphasis on the candidate experience, and I most enjoy the opportunity to get to know so many talented and inspiring people doing incredible work. Rachel and I have done a lot of work together over the years, integrating principles of diversity, equity inclusion into all of the work that we do with organizations and individuals. And I currently live in Santa Cruz, California with my husband, Dan. 

Karen Kendrick  

Awesome. Thank you all for being with us. We’re so glad to have you with us today. And I’d love to start out, let’s just figure out what do we mean by bringing your authentic self to work? Because let’s start with that before we even talk about where we have challenges. So Rachel, start us off?

Rachel Wyley  

Yeah, it’s a big question. We spend a lot of time in our various circles, you know, one on one and in small group talking about this. And, you know, there’s a simple answer, and there’s a very complex answer. So I’ll try my best to be simple I think. Bringing your authentic self to work means that you can enter into a space and all of your identities and be uncensored in a particular way. Now, that’s tricky because you know, there’s a lot of ideas about what it means to be a professional and what it means to show up in a work conscious way I feel. But I do hold to that definition when you’re in spaces where you can move as you move in your identities. To me that feels like being able to stand in your authentic self. I’ll add to that, that, you know, fundraising, I think we are responsible to name, you know, what I think can sometimes be the elephant in the room, that fundraising is white space. And I’m a black woman. And it’s a space where I’ve had to learn to carve out space for myself. And it has not always been easy. In fact, it’s often been very challenging. But I was able to navigate that first by being really honest with myself about the fact that it is white space. And as a non-white person in white space, I had to be very strategic about how I move, but also learn to be very committed to the need for me to be authentic, and to be true to myself within that space.

Karen Kendrick  

So Rachel, as a white person who gets to work in white space, a lot, what do you mean, when you say fundraising is white space?

Rachel Wyley  

Yeah. And I warned you all about this. Oh, sorry, Karen. Go ahead.

Karen Kendrick  

No, go ahead.

Rachel Wyley  

I warned you all about this, this is one of my favorite topics. And so I won’t go too far to the left, I promise you to behave myself. And, you know, I think what I know to be true about fundraising is that, you know, both on the donor side, but also on the staff side, there are mostly white folks moving in that space. So whether they are the people that are giving money, whether they are the people who are sitting on the boards, and also giving money, and directing and advising, whether they are the people who inhabit the leadership positions within the fundraising space within a non-profit, they tend to be white folks. And I think on some level that that follows and works because it has been successful for a lot of people. Where I am challenged, I’m challenged by a number of things, but where I experienced a lot of challenge is, when we are complacent in that and we’re not asking questions about one, why are there not more people here who are non-white? And two, what will it take for these people who are non-white inhabiting this space to be able to be successful in this space? I think that we are not being responsible about how we show up for communities, which is ultimately what fundraising and philanthropy should be about. And so for me, I define white space as a space, that is where the habits and the principles and the patterns of behavior are determined, mostly by white folks and by white dominant culture.

Karen Kendrick  

So as you came into that space, as a fundraiser, Rachel, you’ve got a story about how that impacted you, and then what you figured out, so share some of that.

Rachel Wyley  

Yes, thank you for that invitation. I will tell you, it has been both probably the best thing that could have happened from my professional self and also one of the most challenging things. I think that follows for most of us, those things tend to sit side by side. What has been challenging always in that space, is that there’s a dichotomy between the individuals who work within the space who I have experienced tend to be very well meaning, tend to want me to stand in my identities very unapologetically. And the other side of it, which is are those individuals prepared to push on a system that is not as friendly to those identities. And so when I think about, you know, a particular story I can share with you, I was, I was gonna say I was a black woman when I became an executive director, but I’ve always been a black woman.

Karen Kendrick  

I’m glad you got that clear.

Rachel Wyley  

Just to be abundantly clear. But I was also 28, you know, I came out of programs and my very first fundraising position was Executive Director. And so there was a lot happening in that space, there was a lot I had to learn very quickly. But one of the lessons that I learned that was a difficult pill to swallow was that folks wanted me in that space because they wanted people to see my identities. They believed that I could do something different in that space by virtue of my identities, but did not make intentional space for me. At the end of the day, in order to meet goals, they still wanted Rachel Wyley, this 28-year-old black woman to come in and do what they did, because that’s what they knew to work and it didn’t work for me.

Karen Kendrick  

Okay, so it didn’t work for you, Rachel. And so where did you go from that space?

Rachel Wyley  

This can also be a long story and I won’t make it so. I honestly went through a lot of periods of very low self esteem and very kind of challenging experiences of being in really the top leadership seat in my region and questioning constantly, am I qualified to be here? And is what naturally comes to me is my authentic leadership, which is geared much more toward authentic relationship building, you know, challenging the ways people think, pushing on mindsets, uplifting and edifying team and teamwork, is there a place for that in this space? And time and time again, I felt as though there was not a place for it. And so it really had me questioning my leadership ability within that space and my, the space that I took up as an executive. And often I was made to feel as though, that my, quote, “lack of executive leadership skills” was the reason that I couldn’t find my footing in that place. And it took me a couple years to undo that and dislodge that belief. It wasn’t that; it was that there was not a space carved out for me, I was pioneering something. And the pioneering had not been invited or prepared for.

Karen Kendrick  

Yeah. And to all your gifts and strengths, be told they’re welcomed, and then not be welcomed, that’s really tough. Right? You have a lot of questions for yourself. Thank you for sharing that with us. Paul, what do you want to add to that conversation around what does it mean to bring your authentic self?

Paul Towne  

Yeah, well, you know, first off, I’m a white man. And so people have certain assumptions when I walk into the room based on how I look, but I’m also a gay man. And so I think that adds a level of complexity, that isn’t always, you know, something that’s visible. I do think that, you know, fundraising is really the most successful when you are able to build strong relationships, and you can’t build a relationship without some level of vulnerability, right. And so, I do think that by being your full self, and bring in everything that you represent to the table, you’re able to build those stronger relationships than you would if you were just sort of a facade of who you are on the inside. 

Paul Towne  

I did want to share one experience that I had. So I got my MBA at Emory in Atlanta. And I remember having a conversation with an advisor in the Career Center, about whether or not I wanted to be out on my resume. And this was in 2006, which, you know, the grand scheme of things is not actually that long ago. And ultimately, I decided that I really wanted to make it clear that I was gay. So I actually included information about my leadership of an advisory board to the university president on LGBT concerns. It’s not something that I needed to add, but it’s just a way for a human resource professional or a hiring managers to see that that was part of my identity. And ultimately, for me, it was really about the fact that I didn’t want to risk going to work for an organization or a manager where I couldn’t be myself fully. And so it’s interesting that I have that option, you know, whereas Rachel, when she shows up, she’s a black woman, people know that right away. So it can be rather nuanced in terms of, you know, how you show up what you offer in your conversations, because I can just leave out the fact that I have a husband. You know, and that’s not an option for everyone.

Jeff Schreifels  

Right. Paul, what do you think our non-profit culture tells us about what is required in a fundraising role that could bump up against who we are? Maybe it’s parts of ourselves we’ve already decided we can’t bring to the table because it doesn’t fit? And then maybe Rachel can join in on that, too. But what do you think about that?

Paul Towne  

Yeah. So you know, I would say it really varies from organization to organization. And there are certain types of organizations, you know, for example, religious organizations where, you know, it depends on what their orientation is towards diverse people, people that represent different types of diversity. And it also depends on who the organization serves and who its donors are. And I think a lot of organizations over the last, you know, five or 10 years, I would say, they’ve made pretty public statements about commitments to being more inclusive, but you know, to be honest, my experience is that it can sort of vary behind closed doors. You know, like many applicants, I’ll always look at an organization’s website and read the staff bios to see if there are others that are like me, and I feel like if staff are comfortable mentioning their same sex partner and including their preferred pronouns, that’s a pretty good sign that it’s a place that will welcome me to show up as my full self.

Rachel Wyley  

Yeah, I do something very similar Paul, I always look, as I do in rooms, right, this is something that I learned as a fundraiser too because I was often in rooms, you know, not only as the sole or one of the few black women in that space, but I also as Paul will know well, I used to have a natural hair faux hawk that had red tips, and so.

Paul Towne  

You did not Miss Rachel when she walked in the room.

Rachel Wyley  

There was no missing Rachel at all. So I agree, you know, when I go on a website and look at the board, and when I see that there are black folks there, you know that does something for me. And it makes me, it doesn’t tell me the whole story, I think we have to be careful not to read too much into that, right, because you know, window dressing is a very real thing. And it does suggest something that I can then ask questions from. I also feel as though so in this question you ask, which I love, about, you know, what the culture tells us about what’s required, I think, so much of fundraising culture that I believe is, is overlooked a lot of times is if we allow them to be there are very fixed power dynamics within the fundraising space. And I promise you all until I started to push on those power dynamics, naming that I was an Executive Director. So I had a quite a bit of positional power. And I want to name that that is a factor, that is a piece. And until I started to leverage that positional power to shift power dynamics, I was not able to be wildly successful as a fundraiser or as an executive director. And so for me, a lot of times that look like saying, “I’m not sure why we have held the board up as this body that is all-knowing and that gets to make all the decisions when my staff are more expert than me. So we’re going to be in the same room. My staff is coming to board meetings. We’re going to talk about these things, and we’re going to integrate this culture and be very serious about the reality that you having capital and money does not mean that you are an expert. It simply means that you have capital and you have something to give your partner in this work.” And so I think some of the more dangerous parts of the culture, you know, suggest that it is our responsibility as fundraisers to just do whatever we need to do to keep our boards and our donors happy. So they keep giving money. And that bumps up against in a very alarming way the mind that we bring to community service work. We have to better integrate those, they have to sit next to each other. We also I feel, have to be willing to, with our donors, with our boards, who hold a lot of the culture, push on the narrative that says that they hold the power and they get to make the decision and that they don’t have to be learners. They do. 

Jeff Schreifels  

Yeah.

Karen Kendrick  

So Rachel, I hear you talking about everything from, and Paul as well, identity, how you dress, your clothing, that you cooperate with power dynamics, that you stay in your lane. And there’s all these expectations and requirements of what our culture says about being in the fundraising role and being successful. So let’s talk a little bit about the costs. So Rachel, you started out earlier speaking to, you know, the cost for you to be in jobs continually where someone said, we want you to bring this gift in this piece, but yet, they did not have a space to receive that. So talk a little bit about the cost to you a little bit more, and also the cost to the non-profit.

Rachel Wyley  

Yeah. It was expensive. I appreciate this question in a fundamental, in a deep way. It was expensive for me personally, to exist in that space, as someone who as we all are, we’re still you know, formulating our identities, probably our whole lives. But I was in a very particular space in that moment, and, you know, had been lauded for my leadership in programs and, you know, in team leadership up until that point and arrived at this place, where again, I felt as though the individuals in that space had a lot of belief in me and wanted me to be able to be who I was. But were not willing to push on the system. Were not willing to push on the practices that did not favor culturally how I move through the world. 

Rachel Wyley  

So the cost to me was, I went through a period of years where I really had to recover my self-esteem and my confidence, frankly, within not just the fundraising, but in the leadership space. I remember leaving my first executive director position. And Paul, you and I have talked about this before, and Paul has held a lot of space for these experiences for me, which I appreciate so much. I exited that space, feeling as though I was not executive material, right, that I was not a leader in the way that I thought I was, and that I needed to reevaluate how much leadership I could actually maintain and how much and what leadership space I deserved to occupy. Because, you know, both kind of implicitly and explicitly, I was being told that I was not the right fit for this because I couldn’t get with the program. In so many words. 

Rachel Wyley  

The cost to the organization was that, I want to say, so Zora Neale Hurston has this quote, where she says, like, why would somebody, this is paraphrasing for anybody who might want to come for me because it’s not verbatim, why would anybody deny themselves the pleasure of my company? I don’t get it. I love that quotation. So from the vantage point I have today, from the recovered confidence, you know, today I can say that, like, well it was their loss that they didn’t make space for that. But also the technical cost, like the real, the reality of cost was that I was not able to deliver on the goals that they were asking me to meet, right. Because I was not getting support with carving out the space where I could be successful. I was being asked to mold to a definition of success that others had been successful in, and namely, white folks. And it was not an understanding of the fact that I cannot, as a black woman, just come over and do what you do, and have dollars come in. If we choose to look at it that way, that’s an unsophisticated and irresponsible perspective of how identity plays in interactions.

Karen Kendrick  

You know, I love you sharing this. I can think about listeners sitting here right now and being in that same struggle that you were in. And wondering if they’ve got what it takes and wondering if they’re really not leadership material or fundraising material and to have an opportunity to really think through and question, am I a cultural fit? What are they really saying about their readiness for me being here in this space? It could really change some people’s lives, just hearing that and having a space to process that. So thank you for sharing it.

Jeff Schreifels  

I will say listening to your story, Rachel, that, while it was such that was a painful thing for you to go through, I’m almost sure now you look at it as a gift in the sense that it’s made you who you are today, which I know firsthand, you’ve healed well from that experience of when you were 28. And where you are today is an amazing place. I mean, you are a leader, you are someone with incredible talent and empathy and compassion. It’s yeah, I mean, I know that’s kind of weird to say, well, that painful thing was a gift. But I see you today and I don’t know, I can’t imagine too what that organization was thinking.

Paul Towne  

Well, and I’ll add too that, for me, it was a gift that Rachel came into my life at that time. Because I think, while we don’t have the same lived experiences, we have similar themes in terms of not seeing ourselves in leadership or, you know, not being represented or recognized for the approaches or the talents that we express in our own ways. And so, for us, it was really the foundation of our relationship, I would say is being able to have those kind of candid conversations and also focus on that growth mindset. You know, like, this is something that we’re going to get through. And it’s been so inspiring to see, you know, Rachel come out on the other side of this and build out this organization that she’s that she’s built that helps people work through this on both an individual and organizational level. You know, it’s just been super inspiring for me. 

Paul Towne  

And, you know, I’ve actually been pretty fortunate that I’ve never really felt that I needed to actively hide the fact that I’m gay at work. There certainly have been times, as I said before, where I’ve chosen not to speak about my husband, or just sort of deflect questions. I remember, not long ago, I was at a dinner with a bunch of funders, and one of them asked me if I was married or dating my colleague that was there. And my answer was, I don’t think that her husband or my husband would be very happy about that question. Just to kind of, you know, break the ice a little bit. So, you know, people still make assumptions. And I think, you know, a lot of times, trying to, you know, deflect it or deal with it with humor can be a good way to sort of get out of that situation. But, you know, as I said, I’ve been pretty fortunate that I’ve selected organizations, I’ve been, you know, fortunate to have bosses that have been really supportive of me, I’ve never been asked to not invite my spouse to a gala or a significant event, but I know others that have, and the cost is real, when you’re being asked to deny a big part of who you are, you know, it’s a hard enough process to come out as it is. But then to sort of have to go back in the closet to meet the expectations of a of work, which is your livelihood, and is the way that you are able to support yourself and the people that you love. Yeah, I mean, that’s a real big compromise that people are asked to make. And so I think you have to really give it some thought in terms of, you know, how can you find a place where, where you really can show up as yourself and you don’t feel like you have to hide any part of your identity?

Jeff Schreifels  

Yeah. You were talking about costs. Rachel was talking about the cost to her in the organization that she worked with at that time. But Paul, as you work, you work with lots of fundraisers and non-profits, what are you seeing as the cost to those individuals and to non-profits as a whole?

Paul Towne  

Yeah, I mean, Rachel touched on this a little bit, but, you know, productivity is greatly impacted when people have, you know, issues or concerns about their ability to be themselves and to feel validated and rewarded for showing up fully as themselves. So, you know, in terms of productivity, that’s really impacted when people have mental health crisis around this, and, you know, so I think that’s, that’s, to me, the biggest impact individuals, you know, and then the organizations that they work for, you know, they’re going to have less effective fundraising. Because those folks don’t feel like they can, you know, they’re in pain, to be blunt, they’re really in pain. And so that leads to turnover, you know, you have folks that just leave the field altogether. And it costs a lot to replace, or to train a new fundraiser. So, you know, those are real costs. And then beyond that, I think, you know, fundraising is all about relationships, and relationships with donors take time to build, you know, you know, when a fundraiser leaves, it may take years for them, for their donors to build a relationship with a new fundraiser. So the costs are real.

Rachel Wyley  

I also think Paul, to so many of the points that you made, and we share that I mean, part of why I think you and I have both been able to excel in fundraising spaces and also have had some some interesting challenges is because there’s a philosophy that that fundraising, yes, is about relationship building. I think folks would agree with that. But the way you approach relationship building has everything to do with your identities, but also just your positioning in the world, right, your experiences and if there are different layers to the process of relationship building. 

Rachel Wyley  

So when I think about relationship building with the donor, so many of my most committed, and you know, most positive and far reaching donor relationships were with people that I had, not rough conversations with, but challenging conversations, right, where they they said something that I disagreed with, and I asked them a question about it, or I said something that they didn’t quite understand and they asked me to elaborate on it. We get to have real conversations with people even though we’re going to ask them for money. And, you know, I think if we are coming into our conversations, just preparing to be rehearsed and do what it is that we know works, we’re also not actually, we’re taking something from the donor, right? We’re taking an opportunity from them to be able to be truly connected to the people who who do the work. We have to take seriously that this is a bi-directionally beneficial relationship, it is not just one-way. And you know, a lot of times as the fundraisers, we frame that, right, we we set that. And so it’s partially our responsibility to make sure that we are having a robust conversation that is about true relationship building, and that the authenticity exists there as well.

Paul Towne  

I think that’s so right. And I think, again, it goes back to what we talked about with vulnerability. And I think, you know, unfortunately, in society today, I think people are less willing to put themselves out there because of some of the identity politics and things like that, that are happening, where, you know, people don’t want to put themselves out there. But to Rachel’s point, I think you really are doing a disservice because, you know, we’re not just, I think the best fundraisers are not just asking for money. They’re asking for true support and commitment. And you can’t, you know, you can write a check, yes, and that’s great. But if you really want to commit to change and social change, it requires more than just the dollars. It requires a shift in thinking, it requires advocacy requires, you know, a real understanding of the underlying needs, and not just what’s, you know, being expressed on the surface. And so I think, you know, to Rachel’s point, having those deep conversations, that result in a shift of perspective, is such a powerful thing. And I think as fundraisers, we’re not really trained to take that on, you know, to be honest, we’re given our talking points. We’re given, you know, the impact numbers that we’re supposed to share, etc, etc. But we’re not really we’re not really coached on on how to have deep, meaningful, engaged conversations. And I think that’s a shortcoming to be honest.

Karen Kendrick  

Boy it makes me think, I had experience working in a social justice organization where we had those type of conversations, right. It was more we’re used to debating and pushing back and asking questions. And then I worked in a university where I felt like I needed to just go in and say, you know, ask about the football team. And I was like a fish out of water. I mean, I did not feel like I fit culturally, did not know how to have those conversations that I thought were important to that set culture, right. So you know, my ability to really bring authenticity and vulnerability was, I was so stiff, and not truly myself, it made such a huge impact. 

Jeff Schreifels  

Well, because the organization didn’t require that, right? They didn’t want that even, you know, they wanted you to tell them about the football tickets they were gonna get.

Karen Kendrick  

Exactly. And not push back on things that might make people uncomfortable. Those sort of things were the norm. Yeah, yeah.

Paul Towne  

Well, I think when people are pushed into that, you’re not going to get the best out of them, you know, and it really forces fundraisers to sort of retreat from the whole situation. And, and so I think good managers empower fundraisers to have those conversations. It’s not that they necessarily require them to, but there’s a time and a space for it. So I think that’s, it’s all about creating that space.

Karen Kendrick  

Yeah, it becomes transactional, the more authentic and vulnerable I am, the more the donor can be. And the more we can get to their heart and passion and, you know, make connections and all the beautiful things and the magic that happens, right.

Rachel Wyley  

Totally, totally. Oh excuse me Karen. 

Karen Kendrick  

No go ahead, Rachel. 

Rachel Wyley  

I was just thinking about Paul, you made a statement about creating space. And I, you and I talk about all the time about how we use words, and we don’t we’re not always listening to ourselves fully when we use a word, right? So when I heard you say, create space sounds like I heard it for the first time I create is literally a creative process. Well, if we’re not, I think so much of the challenge that exists in in fundraising space, is that because it has to do with money, I’m not gonna go on that left tangent, that’s another, I’m gonna behave myself, but because I think the most toxic parts of that culture are centered around how much money do we need? What is the goal? How do we get to it? That is not a creative process, unless we allow it to be. It can be very rote, it can be very sterile, and that is not human-centered work. And so I also need us to contend with the contradictions that exist, that we don’t even think about, that actually, if we just addressed, oh we can be more creative in this space? Then I think we could unlock a lot of the things that that are challenges for us. But we have to be willing to be creative in our approach, and not just do what we’ve always done. We asked our programs to reinvent all the time. And so the same programs that we are asking donors to partner with us to keep going and to sustain, if we’re asking that side of things to be innovative, why would we stay the same in fundraising? We have to hold ourselves accountable to that. 

Paul Towne  

So true.

Karen Kendrick  

So as we all prepared for this podcast, we had so many things to talk about, and share. And it was a beautiful conversation, I wish all of you could have been there. But this is like a first step right into that discussion, into that topic. It’s there’s so much here to unpack, it’s beautiful to look at and learn. And so just to help us close out this first step, talk a little bit about what you would want people to walk away with, starting with you, Jeff.

Jeff Schreifels  

This is what I want people to walk away. If after hearing this podcast, you could spend some time just for some self-reflection, just pause for a bit and just ask yourself this. Am I bringing my authentic self to my work? And if I’m not, what is happening, why can’t I do that? If you could just answer that, from just what we’ve been all talking about, that would be a huge thing. I think.

Karen Kendrick  

Rachel, what about you?

Rachel Wyley  

Yeah. I’m really happy Jeff went first, because Jeff was really about the peace and the reflection. My orientation is almost always like, well, we just knock it down, start over. You know, that’s not what I really mean, I think that what I want folks to walk away with is an understanding, especially the folks that maybe felt seen in this conversation, but also feel frustrated at the same time, because, you know, those challenges are still very real and very present. And once you tune out of this podcast, those challenges will be there waiting for you. I would love to encourage folks to recognize that you’re not going to be able to take down the entire system as an individual. And frankly, it’s not the best use of your energy or your inherent creativity, I don’t want that for you and for your life. 

Rachel Wyley  

What I do know you can do though, is be really clear about your best self within that authenticity, and be vigilant about finding spaces that are going to nurture that self. And that want that self to bloom and blossom. So a quick example for me is that I learned recently that one of my best assets is that I can come into a space and I can ask the questions that help people unlock ways in which they are not being equitable. If I go into a space to get a job, and they’re not responding well to my questions, they really are not trying to hear that from me, that’s not my space. And so I can proceed to move on. Doesn’t have to be hard feelings. But that’s not my space. So I don’t have to take up space there.

Karen Kendrick  

Paul, what about you?

Paul Towne  

Yeah, I think for me, you know, this work, to sort of evaluate your workspace and how you show up can feel really isolating. And I think, you know, taking the time to pause for self-reflection is so important, but don’t necessarily live there. You know, I’ve been so fortunate to have Rachel in my life and you know, find yourself a Rachel, you know, find yourself someone who you can have these authentic and vulnerable conversations with and in a safe space. And it doesn’t necessarily have to be you know, someone who identifies like you. I think there’s, there’s strength and real meaning and connecting with others who have experienced otherness, but maybe not the same flavor of otherness, you know, if that makes sense. 

Paul Towne  

Mentors can be really valuable to have these conversations, maybe a mentor that’s outside your organization so that they can be objective. But I do think there’s real value in making space for these kinds of conversations and not having it be a one time thing, right? So I think as we go through our careers as we change jobs, as we grow into leadership roles, the dynamics are constantly changing. And so I think making the time and the space and the commitment to continue these types of conversations, and to engage in them in a phone a vulnerable way, really goes a long way. And makes the journey so much more fun. Like, honestly, I just am so grateful that I get to do this work. And that I have a partner in Rachel, as someone who will hold me accountable, will push back, will encourage me, will support me, will send me the most supportive text messages when I need them. All of those things. So don’t feel like you know, you need to go through this alone.

Jeff Schreifels  

Yeah. Paul, Rachel, this is been incredibly valuable. And thank you for sharing your wisdom with us today. And I hope this was insightful and valuable to all of you as well. But before we wrap up, maybe you could share what resource you are offering out there for those that are listening in.

Rachel Wyley  

Yeah, so Paul and I are really excited to be able to provide you all a list of questions that you can sit with and think through. So to the point that I made a second ago about assessing spaces and whether they are going to be the right container for your authentic self. We’re really excited to provide you all a list of questions that you can use when you are negotiating and evaluating jobs, containers, spaces, forums, so that you can understand is that going to be a space that will edify my authentic self or detract from it.

Jeff Schreifels  

Also, that’ll be a link we’ll have in the show notes for you all.

Karen Kendrick  

Wonderful. Thank you so much for that, Rachel and Paul, thank you so much for this conversation. Now, before we wrap up, though, I want folks to be able to know how to get in touch with you. I know we keep talking about you, Rachel, but I know I’ve benefited from your coaching. Jeff’s benefited from your coaching. Find someone who asked you wonderful deep questions. So thank you so much for that personally to Rachel, but how do folks get a hold of both of you? Share that with us.

Rachel Wyley  

I appreciate you all. You all are trying to make me cry on a Friday at noon. And I’m not having it. And I also want everyone listening to know, these folks are such a critical part of my community. And I just, to Paul’s point, you have to be so, so strategic about the people that you keep around you, because they will make sure that you are your highest self. I give all the gratitude back. The best way to keep in touch with Culture Kinesis is via our website, culturekinesis.com. We’re also on Instagram and LinkedIn. You can follow us there also.

Paul Towne  

And I want to echo what Rachel said. This has been such an inspiring conversation and it’s been so fantastic to get to know, you know, the folks from Veritus, we’re really looking forward to more opportunities to connect with your community. To find me, you can find out follow Cooper Coleman on coopercoleman.com or on LinkedIn. And then I’m also available on LinkedIn if you want to reach out to me directly or you can email me at paul@coopercoleman.com and look forward to being in touch.

Jeff Schreifels  

Awesome. Well thank you Paul and Rachel for joining us today. And thank you Karen, for co-hosting with me today. And we appreciate all of you who are listening and we’ll see you next time. Thank you.

Recorded  

Thank you for joining us for the Nothing But Major Gifts podcast from Veritus Group. Richard and Jeff also write an ongoing blog that you can subscribe to for free at veritusgroup.net. Please join us again next time.