Re-Release: Using Permission-Based Asking with Your Donors and Securing Meetings

Jeff Schreifels

How do you know when your donor is ready to consider a gift, or when it’s the right time to ask for a meeting? You first ask permission to ask them. Today’s show is a re-release of one of our most downloaded podcast episodes about our Permission-Based Asking model for fundraising, featuring Karen Kendrick, our Senior Director of Client Engagement, and Debi Dunham, Senior Client Experience Leader. Listen in to hear some real-life examples of how this asking strategy can transform your donor relationships. I think you’ll get a lot out of this conversation. Thanks for listening.

Recorded 

Welcome to the Nothing But Major Gifts podcast from Veritus Group featuring Richard Perry and Jeff Schreifels. Twice a month, we bring you the latest and best thinking about major gift fundraising, so you can develop authentic relationships with your major donors. Here are your hosts, Richard and Jeff.

Karen Kendrick 

Welcome to the podcast today. I’m Karen Kendrick, Senior Director of Learning here at Veritus and I’m taking over the podcast – I love that line (laughter), along with my colleague, Debi Dunham. Debi and I are incredibly passionate about using permission-based asking with your donors and how this can transform your donor relationships. But before we get to that, let me have Debi introduce herself.

Debi Dunham 

Hello, everyone. My name is Debi Dunham, and I’m a [Senior] Client Experience Leader with Veritus Group. And I’ve had the fortunate experience to be here 11 years and I work with a lot of clients all around the country. And I love this work. And my favorite part is when you align the donor’s passion with program and that beautiful thing happens when they say yes, and this work is very encouraging. And I get to work with amazing people.

Karen Kendrick 

Awesome. And Debi has been doing fundraising since her 20s, which is unusual. And so many of us fall into it, right, by accident. And she was doing asks back then. So Debi has a lifetime of experience with donor communication and asking for a gift and works with multiple people every week to help them as well. So she’s going to have lots of good stories and examples for you all. But before we get started, if you don’t know what the permission-based asking model is, let me just do a quick little intro to that.

Karen Kendrick 

So when you think about when you have that great donor call, right, you connected, it flowed, you were able to ask good questions, you got to know something about them. It felt natural. It feels good, right? It’s like, ah, you know, this is why I’m here. This was great. And so the permission-based asking model is not just a model for asking for a gift, for money. It’s a communication model. And it’s called, we have the word asking in there. Because you’re using a variety of asking yes or no and open-ended questions to really facilitate a lot more conversations that are like the one I just described, right? Even if you’re having a first-time call with a donor, it helps you be much more present, be a partner to that donor, have more meaningful conversation. It helps you know, relax into it and bring your best self because it gives you this structure and system. And so it’s just really cool. Even using a little part of it can help in moving those conversations to a more and more meaningful place. So it is a model for all kinds of communication with colleagues or donors or your teenagers.

Karen Kendrick 

And it’s really cool because you’re identifying right away that you’re going to be doing two things. You have two roles, right? And you tell this to your donor: I’m going to be your partner. So my role is to really walk beside you. Find out what you care about what you’re passionate about and connect you in a meaningful way be telling you the difference you’re making with that with those programs in our organization. And also, I’m going to be a facilitator, I’m going to keep the meeting moving, I’m going to make sure that you’re getting what you need. And so it helps you with those meetings where you’re talking away, and you’re having a great engaged conversation, but you realize there’s other things you need to get to. And so you don’t quite know, like how to move forward without seeming rude or you have a really talkative donor. And it’s, you know, they’re really just running the meeting, and you can’t get to important pieces. So we’ll show you how that facilitation helps you move the meeting forward in a way that’s really respectful. Donors love it, they send notes to fundraisers afterwards, like, that was the best conversation I’ve ever had with a fundraiser. So just that’s a little intro, and we’ll talk more about it as we go along. So, Debi, can you share some stories about how your clients are using this communication model with their donors?

Debi Dunham 

Well, I have a great story. One of our learning practices is to do some role playing with our clients. And I was in person a few years ago with a client and we were discussing permission-based asking, they’d gone through the training module, and I wanted them to put it into practice and roleplay. I know a lot of us don’t like that exercise. But it really is effective in learning this as well, as you know, passing it on to your colleagues, they can learn from you, and you can learn from them. So we were sitting in a room and there were four fundraisers, one was experienced and had been with the organization for a really long time, the other three were fairly new. So they asked to go first. So what we do is we pair them up, and I was actually with one of the newer ones, and I was the donor and she was the fundraiser and we went through the whole practice. And you know, we would stop along the way and say, let’s back up and try this. It was really, really effective. Well, when we got to the experienced one, she made sure that we knew she was experienced and had done a lot of asks and she said, You know, I’m going to try this, it’s definitely a little different than what I’ve done it in the past. And she’d worked with a donor who was very wealthy and had given $50,000. She got her up to $100,000. And then the next year was $300,000. So we were working together with a large ask for this woman of $2 million. So this fundraiser, we’ll call her Sue, was meeting with this woman the next day. So she and I role played, and we actually switched, and I was the donor, and then I was a fundraiser, and it was really, it was fun to do. She met with the donor and she texted me the next day and said, Debi, you won’t believe this, but I use permission-based asking. And not only did she say yes, but she increased her gift to two and a half million dollars.

Debi Dunham

But here’s the key. I mean, this was amazing. It’s really not about the money. It could have been, you know, from $1000 to $5000. But it was that the donor actually said, “I work with 10 fundraisers from different organizations, and you were the only one that has ever asked me permission. And I felt so honored after our meeting.”

Karen Kendrick 

So what did she mean? The only one that asked me permission? What do you mean by that, Debi?

Debi Dunham 

Oh, that throughout the process, she you know, she had prepared, but then she would do the whole scenario of let’s connect and hey, you know, I know we’ve talked about this meeting being an hour, you’re still good with that time? And then she shared about her passion and interest. And then the fundraiser asked, you know, earlier you said something, I’m curious, do you mind sharing about XYZ? And then they got to the ask part. And she said, You know, I’ve shared with you? Or do you have any other questions? Then when she asked, she said, may I ask you to consider this gift towards this project? Instead of just going, you know, we need $2 million and can you give it? There’s just a difference in the way that you, it’s not much, it’s a tweak in the language, but it simply puts the donor at the center and honors them.

Karen Kendrick 

You know, I love that, Debi, because it’s moving through the conversation through asking permission. Are you ready to go to the next piece? Are you ready to talk about this? Can I ask you about that? Even, you know, do you feel like you have enough information or you’re ready for me to talk about how you might contribute? So it’s asking permission all along the way. And that’s really different for donors. So, yes, whether it’s a $2 million ask or a $5,000 ask, it’s so beneficial.

Karen Kendrick 

But what about other usages? So talk a little bit about if I’m, like yesterday, I was on a call with a bunch of folks new to their organization, some of them new to fundraising. They had to do a lot of intro calls. Right? And you know, they were kind of gearing them selves up. And we talked about how to use this model for that. How do you work with your folks on those intro calls to use this communication model?

Debi Dunham 

That’s a really good question. And I get that a lot too. In our training, we talk about, as Karen said, using this in all different scenarios, and one of the ones it’s really effective is, as you’re qualifying donors, and you know, qualified donors when you have a two-way connection with them. But you get this caseload of donors that have never heard or maybe rarely heard from your organization. So it’s a little bit like cold calling. But this process takes that fear away. And it takes the defensiveness away from the donor’s standpoint, because as you know, they get a lot of calls from other non-profits and robo calls and solicitation calls. And I think that this really works well.

Debi Dunham 

For instance, you can start the call off with, “Hi, this is Debi with Veritus non-profits. And first of all, I’m just calling to thank you for your support. Do you have five minutes to chat? Yes, I do. Well, thank you so much for your support. And if you don’t mind, would you share with me, what has inspired you to give for the last five years?” And just that instead of, “Why do you give to XYZ?” Do you mind sharing with me what inspired, I love that word inspired, I share that a lot, because who doesn’t want to share their inspiration story. So that kind of takes the defensiveness off. And then you walk through the process, and you know, you make comments about what they shared with you, and maybe ask them open-ended questions to get them to talk further. And then you could say, Oh, I see here that we have your communication preference is email, do you mind, would you be open to receiving updates from me on a periodic basis? And they say, Oh, sure. Well, would you like them continue to be emailed? Or can I, you know, text them to you? Or can I call you, you just are asking all along the way permission. And so that works. And then at the very end, we say, do you mind if I clarify, oh, I see we don’t have your cell number? Would you be open to giving that to me?

Debi Dunham 

And then at the very end, and I always throw this in, and Karen, you know how much I love this process, at the very end of the permission-based asking model is to celebrate. And I always share with my fundraisers have a fresh story of impact in your back pocket to be able to pull out and say, you know, if you have one more minute, can I share a story I’ve just heard last week about how your money is making a difference in our organization. And of course, they’re gonna say yes, and then you share. Just last week, I was at our feeding center, and I met Joe. And Joe came up and shook my hand and thanked me and just was so happy that he was able to get off the street. And Karen, because of you, we were able to serve Joe. So thank you so much, have a great day. Now you’ve left them on a really positive note. And they’re not thinking, gosh, I just got drilled on all this stuff. And there you have a connected donor. And then you can always set up the next meeting to ask if they would be open to, you know, continuing to talk or meet for a 20 minute coffee.

Karen Kendrick 

And if they only have five minutes to talk, you don’t know if you can get all those questions in obviously, you want to stop at five minutes. And again, okay, you said you had five minutes, I want to make sure you might you know, if you need to go that’s great. And you know, can I reach out again? Or if they’re like, no, no, this is fine. Then you’re ready with those questions, right? You’re ready with how do you learn how to really serve them or in a way that meets their needs? Right? And starts with those questions. And I love that right away. Like I’m here to thank you, you know, do you mind if I ask, how you were inspired to give so many years ago? I love that language. So this model helps you prepare your language and have those open-ended questions and this tool to utilize whether it’s a five minute or a 20 minute or a 30 minute conversation, and you feel like you’re prepared, right and that you can kind of you can bob and weave with whatever the donor is at the time. I love that. I love that.

Debi Dunham 

Can I share a story related to that?

Karen Kendrick 

Yes!

Debi Dunham 

Okay. One of my fundraisers is a mid-level officer fairly new to fundraising. And she is using the process. She’d been through our training. She met a donor on the phone, he picked up the phone, he was giving about $1,000. And he said, Well, no one’s ever called me before. She got to know him, asked what inspired him. And then she continued the relationship. About a month. He said, well call me back in a month. So she did. And she said is it you know, are you okay to talk now? He said yes. She shared a little bit more about what the organization was doing. And he was asking lots of questions. So she just said, do you mind if I share some information, send you some information, a menu of opportunities? And I love that verbiage, menu of opportunities, because that’s really what it is. You’re providing donors an opportunity to find joy in their giving. And I always say, if you don’t do that you’re doing a disservice to the donors. And they don’t. They’re giving because they want to make a difference. And they want to get that joy and they want to give back.

Debi Dunham 

So that she provided him that menu of opportunities. And she asked me kind of the levels of what to go. And, you know, he had given a thousand, I said, Well, let’s, you know, let’s start at a $3,000 need, and then go up to like, $7000 or 8000. So she had two or three different projects, because he hadn’t totally known all the countries that they served in. So she had to go back and get some information about it, and brought it to him and then asked if she could call him a week later. And he said, Yes. And as she called, made the call, before she even asked permission to if he wanted to partner with them. He said, You know what I was so moved by all that you do. And I didn’t realize everything you do, I would like to give to these two projects. And the total was $6,700. So the cool thing was he felt honored, you know, he’d never been talked to. And then she used permission-based asking all along the relationship. And he came forward with being blessed by being able to give $6,700.

Karen Kendrick 

I love it. And I love it. I love the fact that she was courageous too right.

Debi Dunham 

Yes, very courageous.

Karen Kendrick 

I’m seeing that he has interests. So, what was the language again, a menu of opportunities, is that it?

Debi Dunham 

Yes, a menu of opportunities, and there are organizations I work with that do a lot of different things, and the donors give to the organization, because Oh, I know, you have a great reputation, I’ve heard about you. And, you know, I just love everything you do. Well, as you know, donors, once you align a specific passion, with the program that you offer, they’re most likely going to give more, because you’re really tapping into their heart and less general but more specific. So oftentimes, some of the newer fundraisers will say, you know, I had no idea either when I came to work here, I didn’t realize our scope, and reach, do you mind if I share with you some of the things I’m learning? That’s a really good line to use. Because you can’t, it’s true, if you’re new to the organization, you go, Whoa, I didn’t know we worked in Liberia, or Tanzania, or, you know, in the U.S. in the south, whatever. And you can share that they say, oh, yeah, I’d love to hear. Then, as you’re sharing those different programs, you’re going to pick up where the donor’s interests are by the questions they ask, by their body language, if you’re in person, by, you know, where they stop and go, Oh, I have a question. Or you can stop and say, you know, I see here, may I ask a clarifying question on something you said earlier? And you’re you’re getting that two-way connection. So that’s why I say if you show them different areas, sometimes you know, you send it in the mail. And it’s just a short verbiage, a writeup of the program, not anything too long and then a dollar amount, donors will actually most likely go higher than what they typically give. Oh, I have a good story with that about that one, too. Would you like to hear that?

Karen Kendrick 

Yes, I do. I love all your stories.

Debi Dunham 

I worked with an organization that did just that, worked in a lot of different countries. And this donor had given five, and the MGO connected with the family, it was a husband and wife, and asked if she could meet with them in a permission-based way. And they said, Yes. She knew they had capacity. And he said, you know, we’re interested in giving more. So we created this menu of opportunities, because she hadn’t had a chance to really figure out, he goes I don’t really know what you do. Could you just share with me when you meet with us. So she did. So she verbally shared. And typically, we don’t say do an ask on the first visit face to face, she had never met this family. But because he had said, I’m interested in seeing how I can give more, she thought this is going to be my opportunity to use permission-based asking.

Debi Dunham 

So we put together this two-page menu of opportunities. It was long because of his because of all the projects, it was a page and a half. He had given five, so I always like to go big, because you never know what the donor, they can always go down in their giving. And I’ve learned too that donors don’t get offended if you ask too much. Matter of fact, when I was a fundraiser, I actually had a donor say, Wow, I’m flattered that you think I can give that! Those were his words. So I always like to show kind of a range. And we started with, I think four or five projects. Well, he picked four of the five. And he gave a gift of $125,000 that day. Like I said it wasn’t necessarily about the money. It was the way in which she presented and kind of got to the heart of the matter of what he really cared about. And then he actually honed it a little bit more and the next year he gave $300,000.

Karen Kendrick 

Wow. So what I’m hearing is it’s like a combination of the permission-based communication helps you ask those great questions, donors feel like you’re really journeying alongside them as a partner, but you’re also keeping it really clear and simple. Like you’re helping them make decisions, right? Not just have sort of airy conversations for a long, long time. You’re coming with them with, here are resources, here are ways, here are ideas. And because it’s permission-based, you and they don’t feel like you’re being pushy, right? Or you’re being salesy in a negative way, right. It’s like, Hey, here’s some opportunities. You may be interested, you may not, but you’re making it easy for them to make a decision. If they do want to give and they can make, they tend to make increases. That’s really cool.

Karen Kendrick 

Well, what if you’re asking about passions and interest, and a person says, which happens to a lot orgs. But I just love you all, you know, I don’t really care about any particular program, just think you’re great. Then where do you go from there using the permission-based asking model? What would you say next? You know, I love this example, Debi, I was on a call yesterday with some fundraisers. And a woman was new to her organization, like you said, it was another one that was a really big international organizations. And she said, you know, my biggest fear is that I don’t know anything. And they’re gonna know more than me. And I’m going to feel like I’m not quite I’m not prepared. And, you know, we talked through about, obviously, she’s not going to know for a while, right, it’s gonna take a while. And so if she remembers that she’s there, to meet the donor, where they are and be their partner, not there to be an expert. Right? Then she can always be successful no matter how much she knows, because she can always say, you know, I love your questions, you know, Would you be okay, if I go get some more information and bring that back to you? And so that kind of lowered her stress in that area. So what about I mean, we talk a lot at Veritus about, it’s not about how many meetings you have, it’s about how many meaningful connections right? So this, this helps us have those meaningful connections, even via email, for example, like how do people use this in email or text or other ways to have that meaningful connection, then let’s talk about getting meetings as well.

Debi Dunham 

Okay, in email, I think we use it in the intro process as well. The permission-based asking and emails. You make a call, you leave a great message, and you tell them in the call, I’ve left you an email, if you don’t mind, could you please read the email and I’d appreciate a response. A lot of times people do respond to that email, and they say in the email, similar to what they say in the intro call, you know, I’m really thankful for your giving over the last two years. And if you don’t mind, I would love to hear more about your passion behind your interest in our organization. So you once again, don’t say “why do you give?” You just phrase it in a way that is a question of permission to see if you can’t find out more about why they’re interested in your organization.

Karen Kendrick 

And then there’s conversation back and forth versus you know, Hi, I’m Karen, from the Veritas Association. You know, I’d love to meet with you to talk with you about what we do. That jumps too quickly, right? Yeah. Donors have had too many meetings that are really a waste of their time. And they don’t feel any connection or trust or reason to do that. They’re busy people. But if you’re using this, in all your communication, you’re building that trust, you’re showing them that you’re there as a partner. And so then if you’re, you know, meetings are great, right meetings on Zoom or in person do help us move the relationship forward, if that’s what the donor wants. We can always do it the other way as well. But anything about using this model to get a meeting? What’s helpful in that?

Debi Dunham 

Well I think you said some key things, you know, you don’t go for the meeting in the first call or first email, because you have to build trust, you have to honor them. And you do that over time. So once you are moving along in the relationship, I think it’s very natural for you to say, you know, we’ve been visiting now for a couple of months. And part of my role is to thank our wonderful supporters in person. And if you’re open, I would love to buy you a cup of coffee. How does that sound? And it puts me to just say, I want to meet you, it says, you know, we’ve been connecting now, it’d be great to meet face to face. What do you think?

Karen Kendrick 

And you’re clear about the objective of the meeting. Yes. I love the idea of being really clear that you’re not going to, like if I’m going to come ask you for a gift, I’m going to tell you. So any other time we meet on the phone or in person, that’s not what I’m about. I’m there to really learn more about you though, so I can really serve you know, serve and be the connector and the bridge for you. And that lowers their anxiety too. Because if you’re there asking me a lot of open-ended questions and I don’t really know why you’re there, I’m gonna feel like it’s like a manipulation to take me down a path, to get me to say yes to some money, right? But if I know that you’re not there to ask for money, then I can relax. And then if I know you’re there to ask for money, I know that’s why you’re there, right? And you’re going to ask along the way, then also, if I’m ready to have that conversation. So all of that really lowers everybody’s stress, and makes it more meaningful.

Debi Dunham 

I have another story of a mid-level officer I work with, actually, she’s a hybrid. So she has some major donors on her caseload. But she had worked with a donor last year that was really engaged and wanted to give to a water well. And, you know, he had given $2000, and the water well was six. And he said, Yes. And then he was ready. They were talking, and he said, You know, I’d really be interested in hearing more about, you know, if there’s other needs for water wells in other countries. So she came back to me, and she said, Okay, what should I present? And they said, Well, let’s go, you know, give them an opportunity to fund to water wells. And she wasn’t sure about that. And I said, Well, you just asked permission, if you may offer him two wells that need funding? He said, Yes. So she sent him the information. And sure enough, he funded them both. She was a little nervous to go from six to 12. One was 6000. And then the price has gone up. So two would have been 13. And she said, that’s such a big jump. And I said, Let’s not look at that, let’s look at the actual project and how much joy he got out of it, and how you reported back to him the impact of that water well in that community, and how he saved lives. And let him let him decide. We always say that, let the donor decide. Don’t you create a story in your head: “Well, you know, I don’t think they can give 13…” Unless they’ve told you, I’m only going to give $6000 a year, you need to offer them opportunities to make a greater impact. So once again, it’s the story of the progression of permission-based asking all along, and it resulted in a $13,000 gift for two water wells.

Karen Kendrick 

Wow. And the other thing you mentioned, Debi, that’s critical is not only am I asking permission, and using this model, I’m also following up with touch points and how they’re making a difference. So you know, it’s truly that cyclical experience for them that makes a difference? Well, let’s spend a couple of minutes role playing, okay. And you’re gonna be the MGO, I’m the donor, and let’s just walk through what it might sound like.

Debi Dunham 

Okay, you are Karen, and you’ve given in the past, you’ve given $10,000, to an adoption foster care organization. And we’ve met and you’ve been reported back to and you’ve been told how you’ve made a difference. And this meeting, we set it up so that you knew that I was, we were going to talk about your support this year. So you’re all aware of that. Just I’m giving you backstory of who you are. So should we dive in?

Karen Kendrick 

Let’s do it.

Debi Dunham 

Well Karen, thank you so much for meeting with me. It’s so good to see you. How was your trip to see your grandchildren?

Karen Kendrick 

Oh, it was a blast. I did XYZ. So we’ll skip all the small talk. So chat chat chat, small talk, small talk.

Debi Dunham 

I want to honor you and your time limit. And I know you’ve said you have 45 minutes. Are you still good with that?

Karen Kendrick 

Yes, that’s great.

Debi Dunham 

Okay. You ready to dive in?

Karen Kendrick 

Let’s do it.

Debi Dunham 

Okay. Well, first of all, once again, thank you for your past support. As you know, you’ve supported this foster care program that we had. And are there any questions? May I ask you, are there any questions that may have bubbled up for you over these last couple of months that I didn’t answer in previous meetings?

Karen Kendrick 

Yeah, I’m kind of curious about progress organizations made in you know, helping foster kids that age out of foster care, you know, they turn 18. And they’re sort of, they’re walking out with a bag of stuff. And that’s it. You know, I’d like to hear more about what’s happening next there.

Debi Dunham 

Wow, that’s a really good question. And if you don’t mind, is there a reason you have an interest in that?

Karen Kendrick 

Yeah, so I have three adoptive kids myself, they’re a sibling group, got them when they were two, three, and five. And so I got to go be in foster homes, visiting them, and seeing all these kids, right that they were of an age, they weren’t going to get adopted most likely. And learning more about the challenges, not only growing up and not having one family all the time. But then what happens when they turn 18? Right, and knowing what my kids are like at 18, they’re not ready to totally be on their own. So yeah, so we could talk about this back and forth a little bit.

Debi Dunham 

Well, it’s interesting that you would say that because, as you know, we have a program that is fairly new. And you may not know, do you mind if I share kind of a new innovative program that we have related to what we just talked about?

Karen Kendrick 

No, that’d be great. Okay.

Debi Dunham 

This program is we have a home that we are now transitioning our children to, and I’m going to share about the program on and on, and then I stop, and I say, Karen, is this something, may I ask you, are you open to hearing more about this and how your your partnership can make a difference in these kids’ lives?

Karen Kendrick 

Yeah, that sounds really good, Debi.

Debi Dunham 

Okay. Well, at this point, the total funding need is $50,000. And you’ve been so gracious over the years, you’ve given five and then you gave 10 last year, and may I ask, would you be interested in partnering with an increased gift to help us launch this new home and program?

Karen Kendrick 

Yeah, I would. I mean, jumping up to 50k is a lot. I have to think about that.

Debi Dunham 

Okay, well, do you mind if I ask a clarifying question?

Karen Kendrick 

No, no, go ahead.

Debi Dunham 

Is it, I’m hearing you say it’s the amount, it could be the amount? And do you mind sharing what might be the amount that you think you could help with?

Karen Kendrick 

Um, I’m not sure. I just need to think about the whole thing. Like, the amount, the timing? Yeah, whether I can do that much. Yeah. Okay. I just need to process it some more.

Debi Dunham 

Okay. Well, first of all, thanks for being so open and transparent with me and sharing that you will think about it. Is this something that I could follow up with you on saying two weeks from Tuesday?

Karen Kendrick 

Yes. Give me three weeks. That should give me enough time.

Debi Dunham 

Would it be alright, if I call you then, on December 10? At around 3pm? Yes, perfect. Okay. Great. Well, thank you so much for your time. And if you have a few more minutes, I would just like to share, if you’re open to hearing a story of impact, I would love to share with you.

Karen Kendrick 

Yeah, I always like hearing those stories.

Debi Dunham 

Okay, nice. And then I share a story of a recent foster child that got a new home. And you’re left feeling really good about this meeting, right. Thank you for your time, Karen.

Karen Kendrick 

Thank you, Debi. And I love the piece around, you know, “I’m not sure, let me think about it,” or “that’s a lot.” Right. So Debi went down the path of you know, is there another amount that would work for you? Which is a great response and a question, it could be well tell me more about that. You know, you want to allow the donor to be telling you why they’re pausing, right? Is it the amount, is that the timing? And they’re just thinking about like, Huh, I wonder what account I’d get that out of and how I’d pull that off. So giving space, coming back with more questions, this really allows you to come back around. This is a circular model, not a linear because conversations need to come back around sometimes again and re-check in with where things need to be. So thank you, Debi.

Debi Dunham 

You’re welcome. Thank you.

Karen Kendrick 

So you know, you’ve used a lot of beautiful language, and, you know, ways of saying things and, and asking questions. And so I know when people first start this model, it can feel really awkward. Talk a little bit about, you know, you bringing this to some of your folks you work with at the beginning and folks feeling like ah, I don’t know if I can do this, it feels like it’s not me, how did they move from that space into utilizing the model more and seeing its usefulness?

Debi Dunham 

Well, I’ve heard you say this so many times, Karen, that this is about the your personality, the fundraiser’s personality, and adapting it to fit your style. It’s not like you have to say everything that Veritus says just this exact way. So that’s kind of what I lead with and say, you know, you may not say it the same way as I do. Although I will say some of my clients write down some phrases that I use, and they come back and say I used this, which is great. But we also want you to be authentically you. And so we recommend that you look at those matrix questions, and maybe pull some of them out that you will use in your presentation. But the biggest thing I think is that roleplay with either your coach or a colleague or significant other or whoever you can practice it with. And like Karen said earlier, use it in different scenarios. Use it with your colleagues and use it with your young adult daughters who, I have two, and I often say oh, wow, I know you went out last night. Would you like to share the details? They say “No mom.” Sometimes they say sure I had so much fun and this is what I did. But anyways, you can use it in different scenarios. So I just really encourage them to read it over, practice it and use it with other fundraisers. And I think too, it’s interesting when I hear from people, Oh, I could never do this. Well, the reality is you probably already do this. It’s very relational. And if you’re in this work, that’s in your DNA, so you’re naturally going to be honoring and respectful. And you’re not going to just pull through and run over the donor. So I think it’s important to give yourself some, you know, that confidence builders by practicing by preparing ahead of time, and using different scenarios with your colleagues.

Karen Kendrick 

Yeah, I was on a call the other day with one of our, we have these live calls with our trainings. And this guy said, you know, he, all he did was come up with two or three open, good open-ended questions. And he was doing kind of intro calls. And he asked a couple of them to a donor on a call, and they and the donor was like, this is the best conversation I’ve ever had with a fundraiser. I mean, he didn’t use the whole model. All he did was come up with some great questions. So or you practice some transition questions like, how do you transition through a meeting? Right? “Debi, we’ve been talking, I love hearing about your vacation to Spain, you know, would it be okay, if we move into some other things I want to talk to you about and some questions I want to ask?” So you learn, you build that language of how you transition through the meeting as well. And just use one, like use one piece of the model in a conversation, build your confidence, get your language comfortable, and then add another piece and it becomes more of a natural part of how you communicate.

Karen Kendrick 

Love it. Thank you, Debi. This has been an incredible conversation and in our training that we have, our Making Effective Donor Asks, we get into even the fact that when we’re in these conversations, we go into fear, right, anxiety, how’s a conversation gonna go? Am I going to say the right thing? Am I going to get stuck? Are they going to not want to hear me or talk to me? And so we talk a lot about also dealing with our fears, dealing with our fight and flight responses. So how you get your head and heart space right and prepare for calls and how you remain present on calls. We get into all that as well. So thank you, Debi for joining me today for sharing your wisdom with us. I love hearing all your stories. And if you want to learn more about how to use permission-based asking with your donors, check out our on-demand course called Making Effective Donor Asks. Thanks and we’ll see you next time.

Recorded 

Thank you for joining us for the Nothing But Major Gifts podcast from Veritus Group. Richard and Jeff also write an ongoing blog that you can subscribe to for free at veritusgroup.net. Please join us again next time.