Special Episode: Live from the AADO Conference

Jeff Schreifels
Hey there. I wanted to quickly introduce this very special episode by saying that Veritus Group was so honored to be the presenting sponsor of the AADO Conference this year. AADO is a network of more than 3,500 fundraising professionals of color, and their annual conference is their premier event for fundraising, development, and operations professionals of color, and their allies. While we were at the conference, my team and I sat down with several AADO leaders and conference presenters to talk about the projects they’re working on and the path toward racial justice in the non-profit sector. This was such an inspiring conversation. I really hope you’ll find it both uplifting and informative. Thanks for tuning in.

Recorded
Welcome to the Nothing But Major Gifts podcast from Veritus Group, featuring Richard Perry and Jeff Schreifels. Twice a month, we bring you the latest and best thinking about major gift fundraising so you can develop authentic relationships with your major donors. Here are your hosts, Richard and Jeff.

Jeff Schreifels
Welcome to the podcast. Today, we have a really special episode for you, because we’re actually recording live at the AADO Conference in Atlanta, Georgia. Over the last few years, we’ve had the opportunity to meet and connect with some incredible people who are working to change the fundraising world. And we wanted to use this time to bring some of these amazing people together to talk about the state of fundraising and the work that they’re doing each day. Thank you for joining us today, and I’m going to turn it over and you can introduce yourselves, starting with Birgit.

Birgit Smith Burton
Great. Well, thank you for inviting me to be a part of this, Jeff. And I hope that it’s okay for me to say how thrilled we are to be at this conference and to have Veritus as a lead sponsor. So you didn’t ask me to say that.

Birgit Smith Burton
I’m saying it because it’s true, and we don’t do this conference without our sponsors. So thank you. I am the founder and CEO of The African American Development Officers (AADO) Network. I founded the Network at Georgia Tech when I was the first frontline fundraiser of color in 1999. So it’s been a journey to get to this point. I am also retired from Georgia Tech, twenty-seven years now. So that lets you know how long AADO has been in existence. And I had the distinction of being the first African American woman to chair the Global Board of the Association of Fundraising Professionals.

Jeff Schreifels
No (laughter).

Jeff Schreifels
Awesome.

Birgit Smith Burton
Thanks.

Jeff Schreifels
Nneka?

Nneka Allen
Hey Jeff.

Nneka Allen
Good to be here with the Veritus team. I am, as you know, a Black woman, an Afro-Metis woman and Momma, a descendant of the Underground Railroad. And I consider myself to be a relationship builder, stone-catcher, freedom fighter, storyteller and coach. Glad to be here.

Jeff Schreifels
Hey!

Jeff Schreifels
Glad you’re here.

Birgit Smith Burton
Love it.

Jeff Schreifels
And Chris.

Christopher Beck
I’m Christopher Beck. I’m a volunteer with AADO and Men of Color in Development. I’m glad to be here. I’ve been in the profession for about twenty years. And I just enjoy doing this work. I’m grateful enough… when I met Birgit about five years ago, I literally walked, called her, she allowed me to come to her office, and she’s been stuck with me ever since. And so we’ve just kind of been joined at the hip, and I’m just here, happy to help in any way that I can.

Jeff Schreifels
That’s awesome. We’re so glad also to have other folks with us, from Veritus. My colleagues, Karen Kendrick, who’s the Senior Director of Client Engagement, and Renita Tyson, who’s our Interim Director of Client Services. So I wanted to start today by giving you all each a chance and an opportunity to share more deeply about the work you’re currently doing and what projects you’re focused on today. Why don’t you start?

Birgit Smith Burton
Yeah, so we don’t have enough time (laughter).

Jeff Schreifels
(Laughter.) I know, you’re on like, twenty-four different committees.

Birgit Smith Burton
It’s ridiculousness, you know, squared. But I love everything that I do. But most importantly, the work of AADO. As you mentioned, we are right now, at the conference. We just concluded three amazing days, and people have said things that have really touched my heart. But, you know, before I came, you know, in here to participate in the podcast, you know, a woman, seriously, stopped me, and she put her arms around me and she cried and said, “This is the first time I have really felt like I matter.” You know. And so that, for me, like that kind of overrides anything else that I’m doing. And I’m doing meaningful work with the Association of Fundraising Professionals. You know, Nneka and I have been, you know, joined at the hip in addressing anti-Black racism in the Association, and so I’ll speak about that later, some of the things that we’re doing. But that is probably the most meaningful work, along with some other projects. And I am a grandmother to two amazing little girls: a 14-year-old named Mia and an 8-year-old named Zoe.

Nneka Allen
Like my sister, when I saw this question, I thought, “What are the things we want to talk about?” So there are three. And they speak to three different hats that I wear and work that I’m very proud about. And some of the work you know about. So I’m the founder and leader of the Black Canadian Fundraisers Collective, and we have been working in partnership with Black Opportunity Funds for the last three-four years to bring a program to life called B3. B3 stands for Black-led, Black serving, Black-focused. Organizations get the B3 Capacity Building Academy. And that arose from a conversation with the Black Opportunity Fund that was started in the face of the murder of George Floyd. And they were having conversations across the country of Canada with B3 organizations, asking them what their barriers were, and the number one thing that they came back with was funding.

Nneka Allen
So when we were in conversation with them, we said, “We hear that a lot, but in reality, we know that there is usually some capacity challenges, along with that that actually prevent these organizations from becoming sustainable.” So from that conversation, VOS asked us to design a program for B3 organizations to build capacity. And so in July, we’ll be launching this program. We have twenty-five spots where we’re giving $20,000 to each of these organizations, along with the eight-month training program to build capacity in community in a cohort. It is bilingual and national in scope. And so we had over 400 applications for 25 spots. So we are extremely excited.

Nneka Allen
You know all about Collecting Courage, our work with A Path to Action, because your team has gone through that training program. So we’re exceptionally excited about our fourth cohort just ending, and our fifth cohort of Black and Brown non-profit professionals begins in the fall. And that is an eight-module training course, done in community again, for professionals to really begin to explore their role and responsibility as it relates to racial justice in the charitable sector.

Nneka Allen
And then lastly, my passionate work is with The Empathy Agency. As you know, I’m the Principal and Founder of that agency, and I spend the bulk of my time coaching and training, but more coaching than training, individuals and groups. Both as they explore racial justice for themselves, exploring their own identities, but also fundraisers, particularly Black and Brown, who are looking to move up in their organizations or looking to survive or escape dangerous, toxic environments. So I feel grateful to be able to do all that work with a community of folks.

Birgit Smith Burton
You do it well.

Jeff Schreifels
Yes.

Christopher Beck
So hello again, everybody. So my day job, I am a Philanthropic Advisor. I enjoy connecting philanthropists with causes they care about in order to support a great mission. And, but my volunteer work, how I give back to the sector, again, I volunteer a lot with AADO and Men of Color, and that was really birthed kind of out of Covid, if you will. Birgit saw a need, and so did my coach, Ken Miller, that talked about getting black men together to kind of rise up and just kind of give us a safe space to come talk about issues that we deal with in the profession. And I was sold. I was sold. Also my two other MOCID brothers who started, Andre Ezeugwu and Marcus Brewer out of Houston. And so, here we are. So I spend a lot of time outside of my job helping Birgit, and AADO how I can, and also with Men of Color in Development.

Karen Kendrick
Wow. Thank you all. I know that’s just the tip of the iceberg of all that you’re involved in. So as you all know, this is going to be a good conversation. This is a tough question because there is a lot you could talk about. So what would you like to talk about today around you know, what are the greatest challenges you’re seeing in continuing the work of racial justice within the non-profit sector?

Birgit Smith Burton
I’m going to tell you, for me, the number one challenge right now is diversity fatigue, right? Everybody you know, George Floyd was murdered, and you know, suddenly… I remember, we did this, I don’t even know if it was a webinar or something like this, right afterwards. And we had a number of the women from Collecting Courage. I think there were maybe about eight or nine of us. And I had over 2,000 people register because they wanted to hear from us. There was this great interest in hearing what our experiences were and how you could be an ally, and what, you know, you could do to demonstrate that you really cared, you know, about making a change, bringing about change, and really addressing, you know, racism, and particularly anti-Black racism.

Birgit Smith Burton
And it has, you know, sort of waned. You know, I could have that same, you know, webinar today, and maybe get 80 people, you know? And it’s not that people think, “Okay, we’ve got it,” you know, “We understand it all.” It’s, “It’s time to move on.”

Jeff Schreifels
Yeah.

Birgit Smith Burton
“Let’s move on to something else.” And we haven’t begun to touch the work that needs to be done, right? And so, you know, when we have these conversations, and I’m going to put, you know, my sister Nneka on the spot, hopefully she remembers. If she doesn’t it’s okay. But we were in Vancouver, British Columbia, a few weeks ago, and we were, you know, speaking on a panel together and with our other sister and co-author/editor Nicole Salmon. And two things happened that were just letting us know how much things haven’t changed. One was, tell them what happened when you were out in the lobby.

Nneka Allen
So, just before our panel discussion was beginning, I went to the washroom. It was in a hotel in downtown Vancouver. And as I walked through, and as I was coming back, you know, everybody had their lanyards on. I was wearing all white. And there was a group of people walking in the same direction as me. And there’s one white woman in the middle, and she turned around and looked at me and said, “Where’s the food?” And I said, “Why would I know?” And she said, “Oh, you look like you work here.”

Birgit Smith Burton
Yeah. So you know that. And when she shared that with me, I thought, you know, the more things change, the more they stay the same, right? And then I’m going to put you on the spot one more time. It’s okay. Do you remember the question that the guy asked off to the right when we got to the questions? And it was, yeah, it was a question kind of around, how do… kind of the intention was sort of a challenge. You know, like we are, how do we bring about change? I mean, he was challenging a question that someone else had asked. And I don’t remember exactly the question. And Nneka has that look on her face like she doesn’t either, but the way that he questioned it, kind of…

Karen Kendrick
You’ve got to prove yourself.

Birgit Smith Burton
It was a little bit, yeah, so there was attitude in it. Like, you know, kind of like, when are we going to, you know, like, really have the information, and the tools to fix this. “Tell me,” you know, “what I need to do to address this.”

Nneka Allen
Yeah, as if it is outside work.

Birgit Smith Burton
And that was, you know, I just remember in that moment, it, you know, it wasn’t just what he said. It was like a challenge, you know. And the people in the room, and I’m not taking away from what was said, but the people in the room were very emotional, as Nneka had shared some of her experience, and, you know, we were at the point of questions. And his just kind of had a little bit of attitude. You know.

Karen Kendrick
It was not from an open heart.

Birgit Smith Burton
No. It wasn’t. So it was more the attitude that was behind the question, you know. Sort of a, “Tell me,” you know, “what is it that I should be doing, we should be doing,” and not really the humility behind, “I still need to know what I need, what work I need to do, you know, on myself,” right?

Birgit Smith Burton
And so there were plenty of people that really took good things away from that and learnings and were crying. They were coming up and talking to Nneka, but we just realized that there’s still much work to do, and people still have to be open and willing to do the work. And I’ll conclude that by saying, and I really feel we talk about this often, that you know, we’re talking membership associations and organizations, but it’s the members or the people in the organization that need to hold the leadership accountable, right? Not this leadership down, you know, and kind of controlling the people. But the people, you know, holding the leadership in a place where they have to be accountable and they have to be responsible for change.

Karen Kendrick
Thank you. Nneka, you want to add to that question?

Nneka Allen
I think my answer is probably a good dovetail: white power is the greatest challenge to continuing racial justice work in this sector. And so when I’m talking about white power, I’m not talking about an individual’s power. I’m not talking about skin color. White power doesn’t even need white people to exist and to perpetuate itself. As a matter of fact, it will discard white people if it deems that white people are in the way of its agenda. I’ve seen that happen.

Nneka Allen
So you know, in philanthropy, our relationship and proximity to power is particularly close. And you might recall me quoting the woman that was in the interview with Nicole Hannah-Jones that said, you can’t concentrate power and wealth and be principled. That’s the truth. And so we have to be very curious. And then, more than curious, we have to be on guard to understand what white power is doing, what role we might be playing in the perpetuation of it, and what is our responsibility to begin to challenge it, to resist it, and perhaps, if you are white, dismantle it. And until those things are happening on a daily basis, for every single one of us, this issue will remain. And white women in lobbies of Vancouver hotels will continue to look at me and think, for some reason, I work there. And so that I think, is our greatest challenge. And it’s all of our, all of our, challenge. Not just Black people’s challenge, right? And so we have to actually get serious about what is our role and responsibility to end that.

Karen Kendrick
When you say this issue will continue. So going beyond, which has never happened to me as a white woman, to be asked where the restroom is or where the food is, but beyond that, like “this issue.” Talk about that just a little bit more, so folks are getting their heads around it.

Nneka Allen
Well, the issue of anti-Blackness. The issue of exclusion, of a lack of belonging, othering. You know, what Birgit has described about the impact of AADO’s conference is that it is, you know, and I’ve read on online, people saying the most friendly conference I’ve been at, you know. I remember, before we got here, you said, this is like, you know, homecoming. You know, it’s like a family reunion.

Birgit Smith Burton
Yes.

Nneka Allen
And she’s not exaggerating, right? That is not a coincidence. That emerges from our ethic in our community, commitments as Black people, you know. And so, and it’s only in these spaces that these sorts of experiences emerge. We were together not that long ago in Toronto, and had a very different experience. And many of the same people were, you were all present there.

Karen Kendrick
And my experience as a white woman here versus Toronto was a very different experience, yes.

Nneka Allen
Exactly.

Karen Kendrick
Very different community. Very different authenticity.

Nneka Allen
And so what I’m talking about this thing, that’s what I’m talking about. Our ability to know that we belong. We, you know, belonging makes our bodies feel safe. It’s like essential. It’s essential to our well being; as essential as love, as a matter of fact. And yet we have large swaths of our population walking around not having this experience in places where they spend the bulk of their time. And it’s killing us.

Birgit Smith Burton
And I had this conversation, you know, with with our brother Mide, who, you know, was sharing with some leadership of AFP, some concerns that he had about some things that happened in Toronto. And he copied me, you know, on that message. And you know, I am in the generation where my parents, you know, lived through the Civil Rights Movement, right? My dad actually took a sign down off of a bus that said “color section only.” You know, they were at Tuskegee University. And, you know, my mother nearly passed out. She’s like, “What are you doing? Put that back, we’re going to be arrested.” You know. So these are my parents. But they also, they taught me to assimilate, to, you know, not stand out. Because I’m already going to walk in the room Black. There’s nothing I can do about that. But the other ways, you know, and how I, you know, show up in, you know, being smart and articulate, and, you know, blend in and don’t, you know, don’t be a rebel. You know.

Karen Kendrick
So much for that (laughter).

Birgit Smith Burton
Well, but I mean, I did that for, you know, a while. And I, you know, was really a rebel when I wore an afro, you know, in high school. But then the white boys in the back of the classroom were blowing spitballs through the straw into the back of my afro, and I was picking, you know, those out at the end of the day. But, you know, I survived through all that.

Birgit Smith Burton
So I’m, you know, engaging with people like Nneka, who’s a little bit younger than me, you know, and she’s got that, you know, edgy we know, you know. And so, but you know, I learned so. Mide writes this letter, and so by the end of it, I’m a little offended, because I’m like, I’m the Global Board Chair, the first Black woman. I worked really hard over this past year to bring about change. And I felt like, you know, the message was, the needle didn’t move. And so I didn’t do anything.

Birgit Smith Burton
And so I said that to him, you know, on my own, and he… I know he won’t mind me saying this. And he said, “Oh no, no, no, no, no. This is not directed at you. You have done plenty to bring about change.” He said, “Sis, this is not you. This is not a person at AFP. This is systemic, and we’ve got to work at bringing change, holding leadership accountable, being the voice of the many.” Right? To do that. So we, he included, you know, do the things that that we can to bring about change. But what happens when we walk out the door? You know what I mean? What happens when I’m no longer the chair at the end of the year, and he’s no longer the president of the Toronto Chapter, and we, you know, we go out? And Nneka says, “I’m never going to be a member of AFP again,” you know? And we, we go down the street. What happens, you know? What change takes place that continues? And that’s what we’re talking about.

Karen Kendrick
Chris. Jump in.

Christopher Beck
Yeah, I know, right? (Laughter.)

Karen Kendrick
If you can (laughter).

Christopher Beck
So listen, there’s much I can say, but two things that really sticks out to me right now as we continue this work is having some really real conversations with some white friends here recently about kind of all the things, but in the charity sector, people are afraid. I walk away from that conversation, and he was, the person was like, “I’m afraid.” And I said, “Well, I get that.” I said, “But I’m afraid too.” I said, “But it’s okay.” I said, “But what we can’t do is not talk about how afraid we are, right?” “And we can talk about it,” I said. So that’s one thing.

Christopher Beck
The other thing that I see is that there’s a new narrative that’s being written right now, right? You know, from the shrinking donor base to the new, I mean, you know, just a new philanthropic person. The great wealth transfer, all the things, right? So, and not to mention just kind of the shift in demographics, right? So that’s going to change how we do a lot of things in the charity space and so… But I feel like there’s still this notion to do it this old way, right? But you can’t do it the old way when a new narrative is being written, right?

Christopher Beck
So again, so I think that goes back to people being afraid because you can’t, what you used to do…

Christopher Beck
…you can’t do it because it’s just, it’s different. Like the whole landscape. And I think that’s two things that I think about a lot, and that I’m constantly… if anybody talks to me, they know, that’s kind of what I’m constantly talking about. Because we gotta have a conversation. It has to start somewhere. But also understand there’s a new again, a new narrative that’s being written.

Birgit Smith Burton
Afraid of change.

Renita Tyson
Thank you all for bringing these very real challenges to the forefront. I think these are things we all think about. Some of us live in. We all need to hear. I’m curious, though, what is inspiring you about the fundraising community at present and about the progress that’s being made?

Nneka Allen
You want me to go first?

Birgit Smith Burton
Yes.

Nneka Allen
With great joy. I mean, the reason why we’re all here is one exceptional example. Organizations like AADO, Men of Color in Development, Black Canadian Fundraisers, F3 Fabulous Female Fundraisers. These organizations, all of these organizations, emerged out of a denial of space, place and belonging. And the proliferation of these organizations is not going to stop, because we understand that we can just create the community. I mean, as Black people that has been our history.

Jeff Schreifels
Yeah.

Birgit Smith Burton
Yes.

Nneka Allen
We create our own freedom, right?

Nneka Allen
And so we are doing that. And so when I come to Atlanta, for the first time, never been to Atlanta, and I get to see all my beautiful colleagues, just so talented, just so excited, so full of energy, so full of hope. I’m so connected and so loving. That, to me, is no doubt the future; the future that I want to be a part of, and we’re happy to have allies. Hate this word, by the way, because we don’t want you to be passive. We actually want you to be active, which is why we believe in co-conspirators. We want people who will conspire with us around freedom dreams. And so that, I mean, I will get up every day, for free, to do that work with ya’ll.

Christopher Beck
Yeah.

Karen Kendrick
You gotta follow that. (All laughter.)

Birgit Smith Burton
Well, you know, I don’t think things just happen, you know, accidentally, right? So, I was in Toronto at AFP’s Leadership Academy League, it was called at the time, when I met Nneka. We had no idea. No idea. No, we were like, “Hey, hi, nice to meet you.” Yes, you know. Met her amazing aunt. And we had no idea what that future was going to look like; what that path was going to look like. And, you know, and what changed, you know, what happened.

Birgit Smith Burton
So, you know, even though, you know, we could tell you some really big challenges, and some not so great things, I want to celebrate one of the great things that I feel gives, you know, a glimpse at the future. And so to have AFP have a keynote speaker like Nikole Hannah-Jones, right? You know. And there’s lots of great celebrities, and everybody likes the celebrity, you know, that’s doing something you know, talented and creative. But to have her and know that that was going to be an intense conversation; it is not going to be a comedy routine. I loved interviewing Misty Copeland the year before. That was great, but I was not going to be interviewing Nikole Hannah-Jones, because this was not funny, you know, and that’s my comfort place, right? Thinking about, who is going to be the best person to interview her on a level that she deserved to be interviewed. And then thinking, Nneka, right? Like, come on now, you know, and that journey, and the journey from the point of Nikole to Nneka interviewing her. And then, let me tell you, the first person we had invited that we could afford to be the keynote speaker for this conference was not Nikole Hannah-Jones. It was someone else. And then she ended up having to cancel on us because of some, you know, personal things that were going to be taking place this summer. And they, the agency that we work through, right, recommended Nikole Hannah-Jones,

Karen Kendrick
Really?

Birgit Smith Burton
And I said, “Oh, I’m sorry, we can’t afford her. We already looked, you know.” And they said, “Well, she would be willing to do it at the same rate that you were going to, you know, pay this other person.” So then I said, “But she’s already the keynote speaker in Toronto.” And then there was, like this, what if we had this, like a part one and two conversation? AFP literally bought into that, because they sponsored, you know, this, and it just, you know, grew.

Birgit Smith Burton
But this part, this conversation, really gives me hope for the future, because, you know, we can come together around this deep conversation that’s real and exposing and no holding back. And have this incredible woman, Nneka. And let me tell you, she’s not going to tell you this, but when we were leaving, you know, Nikole Hannah-Jones said this is one of the best interviews. And you know, having both parts, because by the time she came here, they were fast friends. Like, she knew what she was getting. She was happy and excited, but she said she prepared, you know, and all her little tabs on the book, you know, that she read and she was ready. So I’m saying all that to say, not to, you know, pat us all on the back, but this, you know, when I see the hope for the future, that we’re able to have this liberty to be able to do these things and to not be… because this is our first conference without a partner. So there was fear, you know, is this going to work? And it worked. And you all came to the table before the table was even set, you know, and said, “Listen, we want to be there to support it.” So it’s only going to get better. That gives me hope, you know, so.

Christopher Beck
So also, what’s inspired me right now is a couple things. So people are still very generous right now, right? You know, but they want to be brought along in partnership. And as long as you can present and share with them how their investment opportunity is working, people are very generous. I want to say that.

Christopher Beck
And then the other thing relates to this diversity work within this is that, you know, thinking about going back to Toronto and looking at the intentionality that AFP placed on that conference, if you attended that conference, there was no doubt that they were, I mean, they, I mean, they were like, it was real. And I looked around the room and you could see, you know, I was smiling, of course, but, there were some people that were just like, you know, you could see they were shocked, right? And so, but that’s the same. That’s what… going back to the the new narrative, this is it. It’s not going anywhere, right? So you gotta figure out how do you, because it’s going to be ouchy as we go forward, right? It’s just going to be what it’s going to be.

Christopher Beck
And so, but no, those are my again, there are many things, but those are two things that come to mind off the top, yeah, so.

Birgit Smith Burton
Ouchy. (Laughter.)

Jeff Schreifels
I like that.

Jeff Schreifels
This has been such a great discussion. We have one last question for you all. So, what is the one thing you’d ask the members of the audience that are listening to this podcast all over the world to do to continue the work of racial justice within philanthropy?

Nneka Allen
Yes, well, yeah, it’s really quite simple. In my mind. The work of racial justice does not begin outside of oneself. It always begins within oneself. And so if the questions you are asking don’t have anything to do with you, or you don’t think have anything to do with you, you’re not asking the right questions. And so what I would love to see is, I mean, Black people already do this because of the lives that we live, but we want to invite people who don’t share that experience to understand that this work begins with them. It begins with their actual identities, not the racialization of whiteness. You’re racialized to believe you’re white, but you’re actually… it’s a construct, right? And so I believe that our work always begins with understanding ourselves, our true identity, and how that identity is linked to this truer narrative, and narratives, about injustice around the world and wherever you live, right? And the more you examine how our oppressions are linked, the more you will find yourself approximate to oppressed people and living a more true life. And so that’s my hope and wish, always, is that people take the responsibility to understand that this work is not outside you. It is inside you, and it begins with you.

Birgit Smith Burton
I can’t add to that, I mean, because that’s exactly, that’s it. Do you know what I mean? That truly is it. And you know, as we’re talking to people who, you know, say, but I’m not racist. You know, don’t take any kind of ownership of any of it. And, you know, look beyond and say, but it’s not me, it’s you. It’s you. And you know, all I can do is, you know, say, I’m an ally and wish and hope that, you know, we all can join hands and sing Kumbaya and it’ll all, you know, be fixed. The work that needs to be done sometimes brings up some painful things. And we’ve heard some of the co-conspirators say this in Toronto, you know, admitting, “Listen, I am, I’m racist.” And maybe, you know, six months ago, they might not have said that. Maybe a year ago, they didn’t even realize they were, you know what I mean. So yeah, and to be able to rest with that, and be willing to do the work you know, to to bring about the change that will impact all of us, ultimately. But to, you know, demonstrate a care and concern for those who you know, you’ve not walked in their shoes. You don’t know that journey you’ve not experienced. So you can’t say, I understand. I get it, you know, what you’re going through, what you’ve experienced. No, you don’t so.

Christopher Beck
So I want to say, I want to say thank you to all that. Well, I know you don’t like the word allies but I just want to say thank you to all the allies, Veritus, you guys. And just, you guys have come in and done some great stuff, so thank you. For the ones that are thinking about it. Here’s the deal. Decide.

Karen Kendrick
Mmm.

Christopher Beck
Just decide. Look, it’s going to be, it’s going to feel a certain way, but you gotta decide, right? And then once you decide, even if you said, “I don’t want to be a part of it,” that’s fine. But don’t fake it. Jump in, all the way in. And then once you say that I’m in, figure out, how do you want to support? Some people don’t like to picket or whatever, but just figure it out. There’s a way that you can help. And just do it little by little. But just decide.

Jeff Schreifels
That’s good. That’s good. Well, thank you all so much for the conversation today, and for all the tremendous work that you are all doing. And if you want to learn more about the work that our guests are doing, be sure to check the show notes for links to their websites and LinkedIn profiles so you can connect further with them. And if you’d like to begin to learn more about this topic, I encourage you to purchase and read Collecting Courage.

Birgit Smith Burton
Yes.

Karen Kendrick
Yes.

Jeff Schreifels
It is tremendous, and it’s life changing. This collection of stories is a powerful view of the reality of racial justice within the non-profit sector, and has had a significant impact on my own journey. So thank you all again for joining us today and take care.

Nneka Allen
Thanks Jeff.

Christopher Beck
Thanks guys. Thank you.

Karen Kendrick
Thank you all so much.

Recorded
Thank you for joining us for the Nothing But Major Gifts podcast from Veritus Group. Richard and Jeff also write an ongoing blog that you can subscribe to for free at veritusgroup.net. Please join us again next time.