When people of color are not allowed to speak for themselves or their voices are not heard, there’s a psychological toll that often leads to burnout. Black and Brown fundraisers are leaving their organizations because they feel isolated and unwelcome. So, what’s the role of the non-profit sector in fighting systemic racism? How can leaders support Black and Brown staff?
This is an important conversation all leaders need to be a part of, which is why we invited a special guest to join us for this episode. Kia Croom is a fundraising executive with over 20 years of experience. To date, she’s raised close to $400 million dollars for non-profits of all sizes and varieties. She’s worked in a host of development roles and is very passionate about racial justice in philanthropy.
If you want to be a force for racial justice, but are still learning, like so many of us, this episode is for you. We’re glad you’re here.
Show Highlights: In this episode, you’ll learn about…
- Recognizing barriers and bias in yourself and in your organization
- Burnout in Black and Brown employees
- What it means to be an accomplice, not just an ally, in support of racial equity
- How non-profit leaders can normalize inclusion
- How to give voice to and amplify the contributions of people of color
- How to create a workplace where black and brown staff feel welcome to show up as their authentic selves
Veritus Group is passionate about partnering with you and your organization throughout your fundraising journey. We believe that the key to transformative fundraising is a disciplined system and structure, trusted accountability, persistence, and a bit of fun. We specialize in mid-level fundraising, major gifts, planned giving, developing compelling donor offers, and strategic leadership and organizational development. You can learn more about we can partner with you at www.VeritusGroup.com.
Additional Resources:
- Learn more about Kia Croom
- What Makes a Good Non-Profit Leader
- The Confidence to Have Tough Conversations (featuring DEI consultant Brandyn Campbell)
Read the Full Transcript Here:
Jeff Schreifels
What’s the role of the non-profit sector in fighting systematic racism? How can leaders support Black and Brown staff? This is an important conversation all leaders need to be a part of, which is why I invited a special guest to join us for this episode. Kia Croom is an experienced fundraising executive with over 20 years of experience. To date, she’s raised close to $400 million for non-profits of all sizes and varieties. She’s worked in a host of development roles, and is very passionate about racial justice in philanthropy. If you want to be a force for racial justice, but are still learning, like so many of us, this episode is for you. We’re glad you’re here.
Recorded
Welcome to the Nothing But Major Gifts podcast from Veritus Group featuring Richard Perry and Jeff Schreifels. Twice a month, we bring you the latest and best thinking about major gift fundraising so you can develop authentic relationships with your major donors. Here are your hosts, Richard and Jeff.
Jeff Schreifels
Welcome to the podcast today. I’m Jeff Schreifels, Richard is off today. But I have Karen Kendrick on with me, plus a special guest, Kia Croom. A few months ago, we got an email from a subscriber recommending that we check out what Kia was doing. We did, and we’ve been big fans of hers ever since. Now, before we get started, let me give you a quick introduction to Kia. Kia has been engaged in the non-profit sector for two decades now and has done incredible work through positions at non-profits serving people and communities of color across the nation, raising nearly $400 million in support of these causes. Whoa, that’s a lot. That’s impressive. In her spare time, I don’t know how she has spare time, but in her spare time, you can find Kia publishing new episodes of The Black Fundraisers’ Podcast to celebrate, inspire, and equip Black non-profit professionals to become non-profit executives. Welcome Kia.
Kia Croom
Oh, my goodness, I’m so thrilled to be here. Thanks for having me, Jeff and Karen.
Karen Kendrick
Yes, Kia, thanks so much for the work you’re doing. It’s incredible. And I know you’ve recently started shifting your career focus, especially in the aftermath of the George Floyd murder two years ago. Can you share more about your career shift?
Kia Croom
Yeah, I kind of hit an inflection point, personally and professionally. And I took particular interest in working with Black-led organizations and BIPIC-led organizations. I’ve been doing a fair amount of research around the funding disparities that people-of-color-led non-profits contend with. And I saw, you know, I want to do something about that. So I have created a couple of platforms and vehicles really designed to inspire and equip the black community, right, my tribe, but Black and Brown communities in building their fundraising capacity. And that is my part of my work and my passion. I believe that in elevating and equitably funding, people-of-color-led organizations that are on the front lines, responding to inequity through their organization’s missions and movement, you know, they’re doing really meaningful work. So if we as society support and further that work, then communities of color will be in a much better position than they are.
Jeff Schreifels
That’s awesome. Thank you for doing that work. Okay, I have a question. What would you want fundraising leaders really to understand about DEI [diversity, equity, and inclusion]?
Kia Croom
Yes, there’s been so much talk about D, E, and I over the last 24 months. And I think it’s important for fundraising leaders to know that DEI shouldn’t start and end with hiring fundraisers of color. Well, I celebrate that, you know, organizations are wanting to be more intentional about increasing diversity within their fundraising teams. Leaders must be deliberate about creating the equitable and inclusive climate needed where fundraisers of color can thrive, enjoy a sense of belonging and feel value. I think that’s important and you know, fundraisers of color, people of color in general inside these organizations must have a voice, must have agency in decision making. And we really need to feel as though our ideas are welcomed and celebrated and see them adopted, otherwise, these leaders must understand that simply diversifying their team adding a Black person or Brown person to their team without creating that inclusive and equitable climate is just simply perpetuating diversity management and checking off a box. And, you know, Jeff, that results in folks feeling, tokenized devalued, unseen and unheard. And, you know, I want to allow you to react to that if you would.
Karen Kendrick
Yeah. So, Kia, what I hear you saying is, you know, there’s this rush to, “oh, I have an all white staff, so I need to diversify,” and not really looking at what is it about my culture and climate that it creates a place of belonging and welcoming, and that really works? But I think a lot of leaders don’t understand what’s not working. So could you explain a little bit about what is the experience for Black fundraisers in non-profits, that’s creating environments that aren’t working, that aren’t helping retain them and really help them thrive in those environments?
Kia Croom
Yeah, it’s what I’m hearing from the Black fundraisers and even Brown folks in my community is that they don’t enjoy a sense of lived inclusion, meaning they aren’t feeling heard, their ideas and contributions aren’t being considered, they aren’t having any agency in policies and practices, you know, that inform key aspects of the organization. Or if we want to talk about, you know, fundraising performance, I mean, even inform our fundraising strategies, right, even perform, I mean, inform our methods and tactics of doing things. It’s like, you know, I’m a part of this team, right, but I don’t have any real voice or contribution. And the result is, you know, folks are exhausted, folks feel as though they’re working against the grain and against the current. And, frankly, it’s exhausting. And we’re seeing folks leave as a result of that. If you’ll indulge me, I’ve got a super quick story, I’d like to share just a little nuance. You know, while working as a mid-level fundraiser, I was in an ideation discussion with a private foundation prospect. And my white male supervisor who was, you know, for intents and purposes, the head of our fundraising team. And, you know, I’m in this meeting, he’s in this meeting, representation from that foundation prospect is in the meeting. And my supervisor did all the talking the whole time, and this was the norm for him. You know, and I got kind of used to that for a short period, because folks know, I seem to have a lot to say, but this was the norm, you know. And he introduced me, he simply pointed to me and shared my name and title, but he never allowed me to get a word in edgewise, to my discomfort and to the discomfort of the foundation staffers. To the extent that after the meeting concluded, one approached me and he was visibly a little uncomfortable or dismayed. And he quietly shared with me, you know, I would have really appreciated hearing more from you, hearing from you. Yeah, I would have appreciated that.
Karen Kendrick
So what I’m hearing you saying is, there’s a lot to be looking at, right in our, in our systems of fundraising, how we’re talking to donors, how we’re having people at the table, what needs to change in our systems, and then we’re hiring diverse fundraisers, but not including them in helping us change that see that understand that at all, and that that must be extremely frustrating, and exhausting to be living in that every day.
Kia Croom
Oh, yeah, to be living it every day. And you know if I can just quickly add Karen, I shared that little short story to suggest how you, even the philanthropies that we work with, and I would even say, private donors, individuals have an appetite, a healthy appetite for diversity of thought, and diversity of voice. And they’re wanting to hear from those diverse voices, they’re wanting to get to know and experience the Black and Brown staffers. So I would challenge fundraising leaders to really begin to embrace and operationalize DEI by ensuring that their employees of color have agency have voice and that the organization is amplifying their voices, which will likely resonate with their constituents.
Karen Kendrick
So what do you think is, now I’m gonna get back to in a minute to having leaders do that, but just to step back a minute, like what do you think is the impact on non-profits to not have that diverse voice at the table?
Kia Croom
Yeah, the impact is, you know, folks are experiencing exhaustion, they’re experiencing burnout. And they are leaving, they’re leaving jobs, their roles, and some are even leaving the sector as a whole, right? Whether they leave to go into another industry, or whether they’re leaving to go into business for themselves. I’m talking to Black women every day, spoke to one yesterday, who has gone into business for herself and Jeff, Karen, you know, the lay of the land, you know, that recruiters are comin, you know, no stone unturned for great fundraisers, right? So, yes, so these women and men are making a decision, you know, what, nope, nope, nope, I don’t want to work in that environment. I’m going to try my hand at entrepreneurship and maintain some degree of psychological safety for myself, because I’m not being afforded that in these environments.
Karen Kendrick
Yeah. So in a time when we need all we need more creative and innovative ideas than ever, we’re actually stifling all the possible diverse voices and creativity and possibility for organizations in so many ways.
Kia Croom
Absolutely. And if I could just share a couple of really quick data points with you all. Yeah. I mean, I had the CEO of the African American Development Officers on the podcast, maybe six months ago, eight months ago. And, you know, we dove into the AFP 2021 assessment of inclusion, diversity, and equity survey, which indicated that 60% of Black survey respondents reported having left a workplace due to harassment due to unconscious bias or discrimination.
Jeff Schreifels
60%. Okay. That’s not good.
Kia Croom
52% said that they believed that they work much harder than their non-Black peers, to receive equal treatment. And I would argue that they didn’t necessarily believe that it was equitable, but acknowledge that they work twice as hard in some cases. And one more data point I want to drop here that came out of that research was that six in 10, that’s 56% of respondents who have felt discrimination, or have experienced discrimination believed it was based on their appearance, and reported having left because they feel isolated, and they felt unwelcome.
Jeff Schreifels
Hmm. You know, here’s what I’m hearing as a white male. If I’m a white male, non-profit leader, I’m hearing, hey, it’s great that you want to have a more diverse staff. But it’s not just about hiring people. And as you said, checking off a box. It is going to mean hard work on your part. It’s going to mean looking at yourself, what are some, what are some things inside of yourself that are biasing you to not allow people who are different than you to take leadership roles or to let them speak and meet, you know? So that’s personal stuff you got to work on. But then also within the organization, how are we going to make this organization a place that lets people Brown and Black people thrive here. And that is going to take a lot of work. And it’s not something that can just easily, it’s not something that can be handled just by hiring people.
Kia Croom
Correct. There’s work that has to be done. And there must be a commitment to creating strong norms around inclusion. What do I mean by that? Norms that prohibit inhibiting behaviors, such as you know, someone talking over a person when they’re speaking? You know, we refer to that as a microaggression. We saw that happen to you know, SCOTUS candidate Ketanji Brown Jackson, right, being talked over or brow-beating their Black women, and their Black men and Brown women and men alike and other groups. This isn’t just limited to, you know, race, right, although we know that race is the I mean, the elephant in the room, but even other social groups, when we see those kinds of behaviors happening, there must be strong norms that prohibit that, and there are organizations that have ratified policies against zero tolerance for interrupting folks, right, you know, keeping yourselves on mute, until a person is done talking and giving them whitespace. Right, for example, there are organizations that make it a point to, when in a meeting, you know, go around and call people out by name to ask if they have something to say or to contribute, or, you know, has everyone’s voice been heard? Right, Karen, are you okay? What’s your reaction? Is there anything we need to know? Yes? What’s your reaction? We haven’t heard from you. And we very much want your perspective, what can you tell us regarding this, you know, ensuring that voices are heard, and that people are supported and that they’re enjoying psychological safety to show up.
Karen Kendrick
So then, if I do speak up, what creates psychological safety? Or doesn’t?
Kia Croom
So there’s a lot of research that suggests that leaders must lean into driving down status, right. Um, you know, if you’re a leader, and you’re used to talking first and speaking out first, maybe you consider speaking last, right? Because perhaps there’s something that you might say, unknowingly, that might inhibit, right or prompt a person to self-censor themselves. So, you know, leaders might consider ways to drive down status, right? Even if it means opting out of some discussions with your team members, allowing them to have a discussion of frank and candid discussion about a topic and, you know, report out what the feedback was without necessarily pointing that to an individual, unless those individuals are comfortable, you know, identifying themselves and client, you know, staking claim to what they reported out. You know, just, it, I’m just going to keep this real simple, just being people, right, and being curious about one another and taking in that individuating information that you only get from a counterpart or from a subordinate. When you engage them, you know, those conversations that happen before the meeting when you talk about your weekend. And, you know, Jeff, you and I have talked about how I leverage you know, my podcast, I talk a lot about cooking, the foods that I prepare. You know, research shows that when we do that, when we have those informal opportunities, and we learn about one another’s backgrounds, we’ve learned and yeah, we have differences, but we also learned and we have some similarities and shared humanity, and that breaks down some of those walls and drives down that status and helps people To feel more comfortable and as though they belong. Does that help make sense?
Karen Kendrick
Definitely, definitely.
Jeff Schreifels
Yeah. So what do we say? What would you say to leaders? Right now? What do they need to do now to so that they continue to make that long-term commitment to support Black and Brown staff? What do you say to them?
Kia Croom
Sure, I want to tell the leaders it’s really pivotal, that they work to create that inclusive and equitable workplace climate where their Black and Brown employees experience lived inclusion and belonging, where they enjoy that psychological safety to express themselves, to express their perspectives. And, you know, folks are smarter than the average bear. I mean, these efforts, these leaders must know, the efforts can’t be so insular and, you know, limited to their team, like you can be, you know, a woke VP of advancement or chief development officer, and you can model inclusion within a team. But if it’s not happening in other divisions across the organization, folks are gonna know, right? Yeah, the organization as a whole must commit to being inclusive. So these leaders got to be talking to their CEO, you know, their colleagues at the, at the executive level, their board, and ratifying policies and practices that again, you know, I’ve said this, that are creating strong norms around inclusion, this way employees aren’t having one-off experiences within their team, but across the entire organization.
Jeff Schreifels
Yeah, it’s the good work, that’s tough, good work that needs to happen.
Kia Croom
Absolutely. And I would add just that, you know, leaders must be looking at every opportunity to incorporate the voices of their Black and Brown employees, when key decisions are being made. And they should be paying close attention to what these employees are saying. But also, what are they not saying, right? What are they not communicating? What prompts that awkward silence, and get curious and drill down on that, and I’m certain, they’ll get some of the answers they need.
Karen Kendrick
So Kia, if I’m a leader, I should probably just have an assumption that my environment is going to have bias and blind spots and places where we’re not seeing and hearing. And so would you recommend I come to you, if I’ve hired you and say, Kia, we’re learning, we got work to do. You know, please come talk to me, I’m gonna be checking in with you regularly. How are you? How are you doing? How’s the environment working? Are you feeling heard? What do we need to change? Is that a good thing to do as a leader to become more of an ally or an accomplice, to Black fundraisers?
Kia Croom
Sure, I want to, this is a kind of a complex response to that. Yes, I think that it’s great as a leader to do that, to practice that, you know, emotional IQ to lean in and have those kinds of conversations with your Black and Brown employees. However, I don’t believe leaders should be expecting or leaning on their Black employees to be the fix, to create the resolution, because I’m going to tell you, you know, it’s hard enough living this right, and then being put in a position where you’re expected to solve it. You know, a lot of my brothers and sisters are like, you know, what, I’ve been telling them that this hasn’t been working. And now certainly, you know, you want me to be a part of it, solution, but by then, you know, this individual has disinvested and, you know, has endured the racial trauma and, you know, just really aren’t investing, they’re in an orientation of just surviving and not thriving. So I would challenge leaders to, yeah, it’s great to check in with your employees but you know, looking this thing in the face that we call white supremacy and we call racism in the workplace, you know, there are professionals and consultants that are doing this work, don’t look inwardly and expect your employees of color to, you know, just bare their souls and engineer a solution for this, right? Because it’s a much bigger undertaking than that. And, and quite frankly, you know, the day to day we are fatigued because we’re in this fight every day. Yeah.
Karen Kendrick
So what I hear you saying, Kia, is yes, say, I want to know, I want to hear you ask questions. But then when you’re doing the work of diversity training, or systems change, make sure you’re getting that outside consultant who wants to be in there, wants to be telling their story, wants to be there stepping in to help people make those shifts and changes, versus putting additional stress on your internal folks who are already experiencing it to step up and be in that place. So that’s, that’s really helpful input.
Kia Croom
Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m saying. I want to speak to something you said, because you use a word that’s really important to me when you say, accomplice, right? We’ve heard a great deal about the need for white allies, right? Those white allies that, you know, show up and show their support for people of color, right, Black and Brown folks. I’m a proponent of accomplices, and I know when you hear the word accomplice, right? It’s a little jarring.
Karen Kendrick
It’s a little edgy.
Kia Croom
And the first thing you think of is, you know, like a conspirator, accomplice, right? But here’s the deal. We’ve seen evidence that racism can rise to the level of criminal activity, and even mean life or death for Black and Brown folks, right. Just indulge me for a minute. So I distinguish allies from accomplices by way of their actions. When talking about anti-black racism, yeah, our allies may be woke. They know what anti-black racism looks like, right? They’ve read about it, or they feel they do. They’ve read about it. They know people that are experiencing it, and are comfortable calling it out. We need accomplices that are willing to go a couple of steps further leaning in and put their privileges, their voices and bodies on the line to attack the structural inequity. That is at the root of it. Right. I’ll give you an example. I have a good girlfriend, Dr. Lana Simmonds. I mean she’s out of this world. She describes the function of an accomplice as this: she says, if you see two dogs fighting on the street, the ally sees the dogs fighting and is outraged and calls for help. But the accomplice is going to intervene, break up the fight and call the dogs to attention, right. You might say, Karen, or you might say Jeff, you know, or somebody might say well, you notice risky business. You got two dogs fighting you somebody could get a bit snarky, you know, whatever the case may be. Yeah, there’s a risk in you know, being an accomplice. But there’s a risk in not being an accomplice. Right. There’s a risk either way it goes. So it’s really important in Jeff, the last thing I want to say to this and I’d love for you to react is that, you know, the white male is the ideal accomplice. Right? When we talk about anti-blackness, white supremacy, white supremacist work, white supremacist work culture and professional standards. There are black men and women experiencing pressure to assimilate into white supremacist work cultures, and they’re being told that their braids, their hair, their locks, etc. are not professional or maybe they look like me and have half a shaved head with razor lines and a nose piercing. Right? Right, but they’re degreed up and have incredible experience. You know, we’re being told our nail colors or distracting or that we dress colorfully and I mentioned the white male accomplice, Jeff, because the white male can effectively subvert that white supremacist culture in those white supremacist professional standards, by normalizing inclusion.
Jeff Schreifels
Exactly. You’re exactly right.
Kia Croom
Right, so that Black men and women are encouraged to show up as their authentic selves. And there are really simple ways to do that, right? Like just elevating the persona of the voices and profiles of Black and Brown employees and your, you know, your fundraising appeals and your letter that goes out, you know, when you’ve got that picture on the bottom, from that major gifts officer who’s got locks or braids and who wears, they’re colorful, their Ankara peplum, like I wear mine, you’re sending a message to your constituents to see these employees and their color, their splendor, their swag. And that’s the professional standards.
Jeff Schreifels
I guess. You know, I hear what I hear you say is, white men got us into this, and white men can get us out.
Kia Croom
Let the church say Amen. It’s gonna take some white male, you know, white males to challenge those, that culture and that patriarchy that is marginalizing people of color in these environments in society. We’ve got a, it’s going to take, you know, the white man owning and joint and being aligned in this fight. Right? That’s exactly what I’m saying.
Jeff Schreifels
Well, I can tell you what this white man is on a journey as well. And it was actually you that really brought something to light back when, when COVID first started, we put together at Veritus very quickly, some training, and we, you know, we wanted to get it out to as many people so we said, hey, anything you can afford for this training? Go ahead. And it was all about COVID. And you were part of that you, you took part of that. But you left in the middle of it. And you wrote to us telling us why and called us out. I want you to tell that story a little bit. And then I want to talk about what we’ve been doing since then.
Kia Croom
Sure, happy to share. You’re absolutely right. I was participating in that major gift officer training during COVID. And let me just say this really quickly. I’ve been following Veritus for years prior to COVID and utilizing your best practices for cultivating major gift prospects and even stewarding, you know my existing donors and I have seen phenomenal results. I mean, I swear by the curriculum, but I remember participating in the cohort with another Black female fundraising colleague. And when George Floyd was murdered, I like many Black employees, was profoundly hurt, grief-stricken. I was still reeling from the murder of Ahmaud, Aubrey, Breanna Taylor, and it’s like now George Floyd, so publicly. I’m sure you’re aware, you know, there were conversations happening in Zoom squares across the country. Yeah. Employees, Black and otherwise an opportunity to debrief about the events, the protests that were going on globally? Yeah, the elephant in the room of white supremacy and racism. So I was honestly dismayed and disheartened when there was no discussion of the events in the training. You know, there was a lot of talk about COVID. And, in all honesty, I felt, as did my colleague, my Black female colleague, that it was a little tone-deaf on Veritus’ part, not to address the events, especially given the fact that you had Black participants, and I believe there was at least one Black staffer on the team. I remember wondering, you know, if she felt, like she must have felt how we felt as Black women and experienced, you know, pressure to smile and grin and bear what was going on and act as though it were just normal business while grieving and coping over this very public murder, you know, in silence. So consequently, I stopped participating in the training as did my colleague.
Jeff Schreifels
Yeah. Yeah, you’re absolutely right. We should have said something. And it was a moment of clarity. Realizing, you know what, obviously, we also were, you know, in pain about the George Floyd murder as well, but we didn’t say anything or we didn’t know what to say. And it really caused me to think and go deep inside myself and, and, you know, I would consider myself this, you know, white male progressive, you know who’s, who’s an ally. But I think that that whole experience started taking me down a path of trying to become an accomplice, going from ally to accomplice, because it was like, Well, what am I doing? What are we doing at Veritus to change this? And I personally, I guess we’re on a podcast here. But it was a podcast that really started launching me into thinking beyond equality issues to equity issues, was that podcast Seeing White and that podcast was powerful. And it put a mirror up to my face as a white person, that I don’t even see this because of my whiteness, all the things that are going on, the privilege that I experienced because of who I am as a white man, and seeing that privilege, and wondering, how can we move beyond? How do I as a white male move beyond just accepting this and just moving through life? And wanting to do something, what can we do at Veritus to try to create equity for our Brown and Black brothers and sisters that we haven’t been doing. And so we’ve been on this journey at Veritus, you know, we’ve, and we’re making mistakes, and we’re, it’s going to take time and effort. But I feel like, we have a vision for where we want to go as a company, and in trying to go from the ally to an accomplice. But we need help. And I mean, one of the having you here today is part of that journey, you know, helping us learn about this and, and get that message out to the audience as well.
Kia Croom
Yeah, I celebrate that, I think that that’s important. And I can appreciate, you know, as someone who has been, you know, a customer to Veritus, I can appreciate your vulnerability and transparency about your journey, and, you know, that you’re really embracing like, okay, you know, that role of that accomplice, I can celebrate and appreciate that. And I think that, you know, I can say, this is complicated stuff. And my community, I would think I would argue that the Black and Brown community, you know, acknowledges that this isn’t easy stuff, right? And that, you know, not everybody is going to, you know, get it right. And then folks have honest, you know, questions, right about ways that they can show up and things that they can do to address the issue the structural inequities, right. And as long as it’s authentic, it’s coming from a place of authenticity, as long as you’re committed to that in that journey of, you know, creating a more inclusive and equitable, you know, programming and curriculum and climate internally. You know, I think this that is, those are your taking steps in the right direction. You know, and I can appreciate that and I’m certain that, you know, this, these communities will as well. It’ll show, you know, through what you do.
Jeff Schreifels
Gosh, I feel like we could go on for hours. Just, Kia, would be really fun if we were at your house having a meal, and yes, music, podcast,
Karen Kendrick
incredible cooking.
Kia Croom
Yes, that would be great wouldn’t it? I’d have to roll out the red carpet and give you some of those southern delicacies that I love to serve up to folks!
Jeff Schreifels
Yes, that sounds good. I want to thank you so much for all the great insight and this rich conversation. And, Karen, we’re gonna have Kia on again, we need to continue this conversation because it’s ongoing, right? It’s not, we’re not done. But before we wrap up this conversation, I want to make sure we keep in touch and connect with Kia so you can follow her and get more information on working with Kia and subscribe to her podcast by visiting Kia Croom. That’s kiacroom.com. Kia, is there anything else that you want to share with our audience? Before we close out?
Kia Croom
Yes, thank you for that for telling folks how to find me. I respond to each and every one of you that reached out to me whether you’ve heard the podcast, whether you heard about me from somebody else, people all over the world. It’s so encouraging, and I cherish each and every one of you. You’ve got the information on how to reach me, subscribe to The Black Fundraisers’ Podcast, wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you’re interested in learning more about my fundraising capacity building program for Black-led, and BIPOC- lead organizations, visit fundraisinginblack.org. That’s www.fundraisinginblack.org. And learn how to bring this dynamic fundraising capacity building initiative to your community, you can, you know, fill out a brief form and we’ll get in touch. So I just appreciate the two of you for having me today. It’s been my pleasure.
Karen Kendrick
Kia, I’ve learned so much. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and insight with us today. It’s been wonderful to be with you.
Kia Croom
Thank you both.
Jeff Schreifels
Yeah, and thank you for listening today. And we’ll see you next time.
Recorded
Thank you for joining us for the Nothing But Major Gifts podcast from Veritus Group. Richard and Jeff also write an ongoing blog that you can subscribe to for free at VeritusGroup.com Please join us again next time.