At the AFP Conference last summer, two fundraisers from the East Texas Food Bank reached out to Jeff. They wanted to share with him how taking our Certification Course two years ago has made a huge difference for them in building deeper donor relationships and bringing in more revenue for their mission.
We felt so inspired by the conversation and the long-term results they’re seeing now, two whole years after taking the training. So, for today’s episode, we invited Hannah Harris, Donor Engagement Advisor, and Alex Fruth, Director of Development for the East Texas Food Bank, to come and share with us about their experience with The Veritus Way of fundraising.
If you’ve been considering taking a training with us, or you’re wondering what it would mean for your organization to adopt a more relational approach to fundraising, listen in to hear from Hannah and Alex about how it’s made an incredible difference in their work with donors.
Show Highlights: In this episode, we ask Hannah and Alex to share about…
- Key takeaways from our Certification Course and how it’s impacted their work
- The before-and-after difference of adopting The Veritus Way
- Learning to use Permission-Based Asking™ in donor conversations
Veritus Group is passionate about partnering with you and your organization throughout your fundraising journey. We believe that the key to transformative fundraising is a disciplined system and structure, trusted accountability, persistence, and a bit of fun. We specialize in mid-level fundraising, major gifts, and planned giving, helping our clients to develop compelling donor offers and to focus on strategic leadership and organizational development. You can learn more about how we can partner with you at www.VeritusGroup.com.
Additional Resources:
- Podcast Episode: What is The Veritus Way?
- White Paper: Three Operating Principles of Major Gift Fundraising
- Interview: Veritus Client Corner with Maureen Gregory, Freestore Foodbank
Read the Full Transcript of This Podcast Episode Here:
Jeff Schreifels
My favorite part about the work we do here at Veritus is getting to hear from our community how The Veritus Way has made a difference in their fundraising strategy. It’s truly an honor to be seen as a partner in this work, and it just makes my day when I hear from people who are following our system and structure, and then seeing amazing results. So, for today’s episode, we’ve invited a couple of guests to come in and share about their experience with The Veritus Way. If you’ve been wondering what our approach looks like in practice, I hope you’ll stay tuned and get ready to be inspired.
Recorded
Welcome to the Nothing But Major Gifts podcast from Veritus Group featuring Richard Perry and Jeff Schreifels. Twice a month, we bring you the latest and best thinking about major gift fundraising, so you can develop authentic relationships with your major donors. Here are your hosts, Richard and Jeff.
Jeff Schreifels
Welcome to the podcast today. I’m Jeff Schreifels, and I’ve got Karen Kendrick with me today. Plus two very special guests we’ll introduce in just a moment. But, first of all, a little story. So over the summer, I had the opportunity to have lunch with two frontline fundraisers from East Texas Food Bank. And how we got there was I went and spoke at a conference there, the AFP Conference. And they reached out and said, “Hey, we’d love to meet.” And I said, “Well, hey, let’s have lunch together, and just sit down.” And, I’m so glad I did. Because these two have such a great story of their work at the East Texas Food Bank, and what Veritus and doing the training did for them. And so it was just so much fun to sit down with them.
Jeff Schreifels
So I said, “Hey, we have to have you on a podcast, because I want other people to be inspired by your story.” So, I first want to introduce Alex Fruth. Alex is Director of Development for the East Texas Food Bank, and he’s been building relationships through fundraising since 2018. And in 2018, he also received his CFRE certification, so that’s pretty cool. And next, I’d like to welcome Hannah Harris, who is a native Texan. Hannah actually grew up in Japan for 11 years, and served in the United States Peace Corps from 2003 to 2005. Now that is really cool. And Hannah is passionate about making meaningful connections with others who want to change the world, which is why she loves her job at the East Texas Food Bank working as their Donor Engagement Advisor. So thank you both for joining us.
Hannah Harris
Thank you. We’re glad to be here.
Alex Fruth
Yes. Thank you so much.
Jeff Schreifels
Karen, you’re on.
Karen Kendrick
Oh, thank you. I thought you were doing the intro before the intro. I love it. Thank you all so much. I’m so excited. I love the fact that you’re very inspirational to me, because you’re learners and you’re people that have taken opportunities to really grow and develop yourselves and your work with donors. And so I’m excited to hear your story again, and to share that with others. So welcome. So let’s start out today with… I’d love to hear a little bit about where your organization had been in their interaction with donors. And we’ll start with you Hannah. Like, what did it look like before you really started this different way, this relational way?
Hannah Harris
Well, we were really lucky to join the food bank when we did. Alex and I joined the team in 2021. And what had happened, what we understand is, the food bank really wanted to make a change in how they engaged with donors. And what they wanted to do is bring in a team to directly build relationships and change the way we were raising money and also communicating with our major partners. And so when I first started, they kind of said, “We have these ideas, but we really want you to help us build a strategy around donors because we’ve had… we literally have hundreds and hundreds of donors…” but they didn’t necessarily have enough staff to communicate with them, touch base with them, and thank them. So they brought Alex and I on to really divvy up the portfolios and go, “Okay, start here. We’re not really sure how we need to get it done.” And so they just knew they had to course correct. That’s really how it got started.
Alex Fruth
Yeah. And we had found out about the Veritus group model, we… one of our coworkers, he’s not here anymore, but he was really the one that helped identify… During COVID there was a huge influx of donors and this need to be able to keep a lot of those folks. He found the Veritus group model and really recommended that we did it, so we were able to do it as a team. We had three of us go through the major gift officer training. And then he went through the managing major gifts training. And but really just it became really the model for us as our team and as we are moving forward.
Jeff Schreifels
Yeah. Alex, tell us about some of the challenges you were facing and where did you see opportunities to do better, or improve the approach that had previously been taken?
Alex Fruth
Yeah. So when we came in, and we started to get our portfolio and started to reach out to folks, it really just became apparent through the way that, you know, we’d have conversations with donors, and they would say, “Are y’all doing something different? This is the first time somebody is reaching out to me to say thank you.” Or I remember having conversations with more than a few people who had said, like, “You’re the only person who has ever called me and thanked me for any gift, any organization that I donate to.”
Karen Kendrick
Any organization! Not just yours. Any organization they’ve ever given to?
Alex Fruth
Absolutely, not just ours. But I remember I sent a video introducing myself to someone who lives in Washington, DC. He was from the East Texas area. And I sent a video just kind of introducing myself and thanking him for partnering with us. And he emailed me back and said, like, “I don’t… I give to a lot of organizations, and you are the only person who has personally reached out to me to do this. I could tell it wasn’t just a cookie cutter statement.” So I think it was something that we were experiencing at the food bank, but also just something that our sector faces too. There’s a lot of… not enough time in the day to be able to reach out and thank everybody. But for us, that was really the challenge that we saw… just being able to reach out to donors and thank them and bring them back in. And that was just something that we heard a lot from, from folks that hadn’t been happening previously.
Hannah Harris
And something that was a little bit different from how we started, then maybe most people who are kicking in with The Veritus Way is our portfolios were not qualified. You know, we were really just, “Here are the people we think have the propensity, the affinity, the capacity from what we know.” But it really wasn’t one of these things that was basically like take this information and then begin the qualifying process. So that was also a huge learning curve. And we’re really grateful to Jonathan, who actually found your book that said it’s not just about the money, because it actually set our brains in the direction that it needed to go. And then we were able to enroll in the academy later. But it gave us kind of a format that we just didn’t have on how do we even qualify donors? Why is that important? What does that even mean? And even now, two and a half years in, I’m still doing that. Like, it’s just a long process. And it takes a lot of research. And it’s a lot of like, you know, the food bank has been around for 35 years, and our donors have never been treated like this. And so really, I feel like the qualification process is even longer, because they’re like, “ya’ll have never…” Like this is so new. This is almost a little bit suspect, I think for some. And so really having to build that credibility is like, “No, no, no, we really do want to know who you are. Like that really is the key thing of what we’re talking about here.” So yeah, it was a huge shift.
Karen Kendrick
Yeah, so qualifying just to jump on that just for a second, for Veritus means the donor is interested in a two-way relationship. So what you’re doing is making a caseload of donors who will talk back to you so that you can have a relationship. But I imagine if you’ve been there for 35 years and donors have never experienced a relational approach, that they are suspect. And it takes time. And that’s really challenging, because you’re shifting a whole culture and a whole mindset. So talk a little bit about, you know, in taking the Veritus training, the certification course, you know, what was helpful to you all in preparing you, setting you up for success, and really shifting to a whole different way of doing this work?
Hannah Harris
I’ll go first if you want, Alex. So I would say the thing that I’m going to talk about the most is the Permission-Based Asking Model. That has been the most powerful, and also the thing that has caused me to try and relearn, relearn, relearn exactly the way I communicate, even with people in general. I think as Americans, we constantly want to tell people, “This is what you need. This is how it gets done. And let me show you how to get there.” And that is the complete opposite of the Permission-Based Asking Model. I think you could probably spend an entire Academy on perfecting and understanding what that means. I listened to that podcast and read those materials at least three times. Because it was so counterintuitive to the way that I have driven my life or even the way I interact with people; it is really letting them run the conversation. Letting them progress the relationship. And so what I love about the Permission-Based Asking Model is that it’s literally set us up for success, where this year is where we’re really starting to make the asks. We’ve built that relational equity. And now we’re into these… where I feel comfortable enough because they’ve invited me to ask for more. They’ve invited me by saying, “Yes, send me a proposal. I would love to know what you need.” And so that was huge and such a shift even in the way that I think because it’s so counterintuitive for Americans. It’s just a mind bender, really. I’m sure other cultures get this easily and “Like, yeah, yeah, we do that all day long,” but it’s so different for me.
Alex Fruth
Yeah, I think one of the things that stood out to me the most in going through the training, there was one of the articles that just talks about, like how little time there is in the day. And, you know, that leads to how little time there is in the week. And I think it was something along the lines of, you know, when, throughout the month, as you’re working, you really only have like 15 days left to be able to work with the donors and get to know them. And just how important it is to stay focused and stay on track and just remove everything else that’s not important. And really just focus on those relationships with donors.
Alex Fruth
Another thing that was really helpful as we were going through the certification program, as a team, we had weekly meetings. And they might not have been as frequent as we wanted them to be, but at least we got together as a team. And we were able to talk through the articles, talk through the book reading for the chapter, or for the week, or the podcast. And really just, “This is what stood out to me, did this stand out to you?” And just kind of getting to learn together as a team and start to really just kind of hone in our strategy through that material. So that was something that was really helpful. I think we could have done a little bit more than that. But it was good to be able to go through it individually, but then be able to go and have those conversations with the team and really figure that out. So that was helpful.
Jeff Schreifels
That’s really good to hear for people who are listening, who are interested in taking the course, and they might want to get their development director involved, and maybe even their CEO, to get… we’ve heard of other groups doing that. And then working together and like you said, coming together, hopefully weekly, whatever they can do, to kind of learn from each other. Like, “What did you get from that?” Or, “What did you get from this?” So that’s really good to hear that you all did that together. And I’m sure that was helpful.
Hannah Harris
We also had a very supportive board. Our board was very, very supportive in this strategy. And even though I don’t know that they understood it in its totality, they were very encouraged when the results came pretty quick, too. I think if we didn’t have the results, they would probably be like, “Ehhh…” But it really does drive results so quickly, and we were able to give them testimonials from our partners and going “Hey, this is what we’re getting from them.” That really just solidified their commitment to this long-term strategy, right? It doesn’t happen overnight. It is a long, long game.
Jeff Schreifels
Yeah, yes it is.
Karen Kendrick
And what did that support look like, Hannah? I’m curious.
Hannah Harris
Well, number one, they would come to us individually and say, “You guys are doing an awesome job. We just cannot believe… we see the reports, we can’t believe it.” And of course, they’re focused on the numbers as a board should. But when we’re able to partner that with real stories about these people who have decided to choose us in this very generous way, that was so amazing to like… You know, board members, they kind of focus on a high level, so to individually approach us and continue to encourage us and say, “Hey, listen, we see what you’re doing. This is big.”
Alex Fruth
We’ve also had… we had one board member who agreed to host a group of donors in their house. And we had another board member who was willing to share her story of how she actually grew up, food insecure. And now she is a physician and helping make sure that they’re screening for food insecurity and people have the food that they need. So this whole full circle story. And so I mean, we have board members who, not every one of them wants to, you know, go and accompany us when we’re asking for money; they have written thank you notes. Really just, Hannah and I took the time to learn from our board members how they wanted to engage, and how we can best utilize them. But we have a lot of board members who really want to come alongside us as we’re building those relationships and do what they can to help as well.
Jeff Schreifels
That is so awesome.
Hannah Harris
And to add to that, let’s do with the board members what we do with our partners because they are the same.
Alex Fruth
Absolutely.
Jeff Schreifels
Yeah. Exactly. That’s an awesome story. So Hannah told me… Hannah, you said that the PBA was probably the most impactful around your training and the certification course. And we hear that a lot from a lot of people that take our training: that PBA, Permission-Based Asking, was something that just blew them away, and it really changed how they did their fundraising. Alex would you want to add something about what was the most impactful about the training for you, specifically?
Alex Fruth
Yeah, I think to echo that the Permission-Based Asking is so helpful and it changes the mindset of how you go into a meeting. And it really just brings them into the, you know, decision-making process right from the beginning. And I think we’ve touched on it a little bit too, just the importance of having qualified donors. In addition to how little time we have with folks, just making sure that you have the donors who you’re trying to reach out to are people who want to have that relationship. And we have a lot of folks who, you know, they love the mission of the food bank, but they either don’t have the time or just something… going deeper is not something that is meaningful to them. And just having a strategy to make sure that they get what they want, but also just with these portfolios, having qualified donors. And really having a set of people who have made the decision that like, “Yes, I want more information with the food bank. I want to be more engaged.” And that was one of the most important things for me.
Karen Kendrick
Yeah. Well, I’ve got a question back to what you said earlier, Hannah. When you mentioned that it doesn’t happen overnight. And here we are talking to you all. How long has it been since you took the certification course?
Hannah Harris
Two years? Almost.
Alex Fruth
Yeah, I think we took that in September 2021.
Karen Kendrick
I mean, it’s been a while and you all are still working this. And so, talk about like, what does that take? It’s really beautiful to see how you have been very consistent in implementing this system and structure and relational fundraising program you learned. So talk a little bit about how you’ve done that and stuck with it.
Hannah Harris
I’m really glad you asked that. Because in front of where I work on my desk, there’s this sticky note that literally says “disciplined, authentic, mission, communication.” Like there’s four main things that I just keep in front of me, because it really is a very disciplined, authentic, passionate process that you have to stay true to. And when you talk about that long… giving somebody… I know, we have the seven touch points, but I have found some of them, it takes 20 before some have responded. And I know I probably should have given them up a long time ago, but they are responding now. And so staying that course, and even though you’re not 100% sure it’s going to yield the relationship or the fruit that you’re looking for. And if you don’t mind, I’d love to tell a story to that end.
Hannah Harris
So recently, this just happened, there was a woman that had given us a gift. She wasn’t in a portfolio. But I was allowed to respond to her; her gift was like $500 or something. We have this process on how we see if somebody wants to engage. And so I wrote her a note, gave her an offer to tour, and she responded to the tour offer. And in the process of over a year, she had been giving $100 a month for years. And she came back in for the tour. And she’s like, you know, I used to volunteer here. I don’t know why I quit. So she started volunteering again. And I had those consistent touch points. I would see her on site. I would call her. Send her a note. She was C. She was not… she was in the C category; she wasn’t my top. And I had no idea. She seemed like she had capacity. But I really wasn’t sure. And then literally last month, we got on the phone and she said, “I’m so glad you called me. I’ve been meaning to talk to you. I want to give more.” And I was like okay, you know, I don’t know, 50 bucks more a month, I don’t know. And she’s like, “I want to start giving you guys $10,000 a year. And not only that, I want to put you guys in my will. I’ve talked to my kids. I’ve got their blessing.” And I just fell out. I was like, “Are you kidding me? This is such a huge change.” And it was such a joy. Because then you know, then that catapults her to A and now I have a whole new communication stream with her. I brought her in to meet our new CEO. Turns out they’re from the same area, they know some of the same people. So that relationship just got tighter and it was so meaningful and so sweet. And she just got to share her heart about her family’s, you know, philosophy and philanthropy.
Hannah Harris
And I have one more if we’ve got time. But this other one really was just that they’ve been the most amazing partners. Every time I meet with a partner, I think, “Oh, they’re my favorite.” Every time I walk away, ask my husband, I come home and go, “Oh, they’re my favorite.” I love them all. They’re just the best. This couple had given us a major gift several years ago, and we hadn’t really, I guess the food bank never really responded. And I think maybe they got a note. And so they had given a gift in 2021 of $10,000. And so I’m playing catch up. I’m playing, “I’m so sorry we haven’t responded. Can we go to coffee? Tell me why you care about hunger.” And so I got to sit with them in their home. And they were like, “No one has ever asked us to have coffee. No one has ever asked us, any organization (like Alex said) has ever sat down and said why we want to give what we give.” And I said, “Well what do you want to see happen for hunger in East Texas.” And so they’re sharing their heart and I’m walking them… you know, like sending them video updates from the site, volunteering together, doing all the things. And the next gift they came in with was $147,000. From $10,000 to $147,000.
Jeff Schreifels
Wow.
Hannah Harris
And they said that was a direct link because we had engaged them. We had asked them questions and they wanted… they knew that what they were doing was making a difference. And I mean, if that does not fuel the energy about everything that Veritus shares about: stay the course, be disciplined, focus on their passions and interests, you know, make them make them the focal point. If that’s not a testimony to that it’s just… It’s been a huge blessing, because you get to walk with them on their journey. Like you get, they’re allowing you to participate in how they want to change the world. It’s amazing.
Jeff Schreifels
That is so awesome. I was just going to say, “What’s been the result of all this, all this disciplined work that you’ve been doing?” But those two stories encapsulates you know, everything that the… the impact that you’ve had. So just to take us back, before you got there, these donors, basically, I mean, we could say they’ve been neglected. No one really reached out to those donors. Finally, someone in leadership woke up and said, “We’ve got to change this.” Hired you two. You two got the right training from us, and probably others, and you’ve implemented this thing, and you’ve stayed the course. And because of this, all this great stuff is happening. Alex, what do you have to add to this? Like, what else is happening there? Besides these two great stories.
Alex Fruth
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, those are two stories of many that we have at the food bank. But I think this is something that is becoming just a part of our culture, of our organization and going beyond just our development department. We’re adding more people to the team, and our new donor engagement advisor is going to go through the major gift officer training in this next cohort that starts pretty soon. And we have a training that we’re doing as well that our whole team is coming. Everyone who works at the food bank is coming together in a few weeks, and we’re going to just talk to them about what is the Veritus model? How do we fit into it as fundraisers? And how does everybody at the organization have a role to play in it. So it’s becoming more than just Hannah and I, and a few others at the team. It’s really starting to permeate all throughout our culture of our organization, which is great.
Karen Kendrick
I love that you all are now teaching it. That’s fantastic. It makes me happy.
Alex Fruth
Yeah, absolutely. And we have been asking for, since we started Hannah, for a list of just things that we need in our, throughout our organization. Our partners are starting to ask like, “How can I help? What specifically do you need?” And when we were just given a couple of weeks ago, a full list of everything that our program teams and our operation teams need anywhere from, you know, trucks to we need a vehicle for one of our programs because of how much they’re driving, fresh foods, all sorts of things. It really just encapsulates everything that we need. And it is something that we have been asking for for such a long time. Just hearing from our partners, like, “We want to be more engaged, how can we help? What do you need?” And so we’re able to get that now too, which is really helpful.
Jeff Schreifels
So they’ve seen the success that you’ve been having. So now they’re like, “Okay, now we need this and this,” and they’re giving you everything that you need to be able to talk to your donors. I think that’s fantastic.
Karen Kendrick
I love it. So you’ve shared a lot of reasons why you’d want to take this course. But you know, the certification course is 36 hours; it’s like a mini master’s course that is intense. We give you everything possible we can give you to be successful. So what else would you want to add? Starting with you, Hannah, to someone who’s like, you know, “That’s an investment in time and money.” And they’re thinking about taking the course. What would you like to tell them about the experience?
Hannah Harris
Thank you. Yes. So if you’re listening to this podcast, and you’re wondering, is it worth the money? Is it worth the time? And I would say, it will cost you more than your organization would probably ever imagine if you don’t do it. If you don’t course correct your strategy, if you don’t take the time to really engage in I think, what is at the heart of changing the world, and y’all got it right. Y’all really did. Y’all have set people in a mindset and a motion. And I think development has been done so badly in a lot of organizations for so long. And this is why so many people are responding to y’all because it’s revolutionary in its approach. You know, it’s putting the donor first. It’s not putting yourself at the center of the conversation. And that’s a really hard thing, you know, to do, if that’s the way you’ve been raising money. And so I would say if you can, and your board can see the value in it, maybe just play this podcast for them, and it’s evidentiary of why you should do this course. But yeah, they need to do it. Of course it’s going to be a time commitment and there’s going to be some things you have to juggle in order to, you know, make sure you get your work done, you know, and engage and learn everything you need to learn. But it is so worth it. And I think it can also help make sure that you feel absolutely confident as you move forward in your career. And it will actually be more meaningful in the long run.
Alex Fruth
Yeah, and looking back, you know, a year and a half from when we’ve gone through the program, and just being able to implement things that… the things that we learned in that course, we’re putting into practice. And we can, you know, all of these stories just prove that what we learn works. And so the, you know, as Hannah said, it’s really, you can’t afford not to go through this program, and not to make these changes in your organization. It truly is just so impactful, just having the shift in how we work with donors and partners.
Alex Fruth
Not every conversation is going to… not every phone call is going to be good. Not every conversation… we still have some…. it is life changing, but it’s still like… we’ve called people and they’re like, “I just gave a gift. Why are you calling me?” So it’s like, I just wanted to say thank you. I just wanted to let you know how important this is. And they’re like, “Well, I’m not gonna give another gift.” “That’s okay. I just wanted to tell you that this is what we are able to do with it.” And so you still have some of those hard conversations. And it being baseball season, in the playoffs now, just makes me think, you know, in baseball, if you do the fundamentals well, you get on base, you move runners over, and eventually you’re going to score. You don’t score every single time. But eventually you’re going to score runs, and you’re going to win the game. And I think this model is a lot like that too. Like you get a basis of fundamentals: here are things that work well. And just continuing to stay true to those fundamentals, through some of those challenging conversations, and through some… and it works. It’s going to work more times than it doesn’t. And it’s just, it’s really more of a long-term strategy than it is immediate. And just continuing to do those things will lead to, you know… Some of these conversations, I couldn’t imagine what my life would look like now without having some of the conversations that I’ve had, because of this Permission-Based Asking Model or because of the you know, just the different things we learned through this course. It’s really led to a lot of really fun, really interesting conversations and getting to know some incredible people.
Karen Kendrick
That’s awesome. Jeff probably really liked the baseball analogies.
Jeff Schreifels
We’re in the slog. We’re in it right now with the… we might end up being in the World Series with you all in Texas. Philly and Texas.
Alex Fruth
We just might.
Jeff Schreifels
Just might.
Hannah Harris
So you know, we share a lot of, you know, in this process, you know, we’re sharing all the highs and all of the successes. But to be honest, and to make sure we paint a very clear picture, you know, you go into the Academy, you’re learning about the Permission-Based Asking Model, you’re trying to retrain your brain to come at this from a different angle. And there’s a lot of… it is a long process at the beginning. And I would say, you know, that first year, we really were just not sure you know, we’re really working in faith, in discipline, in hope that this is going to change the game for us and that we will see the results. And so I would say to anyone, stay the course. And that’s where that whole disciplined word of staying… knowing that the process does work. It will work. And it does help you qualify your donors and actually get in front of the people who really do want that partnership. But it is, it’s hard. It really is hard. I think you guys have an… I think you guys did a really good job, in your podcasts, in your written coursework of saying this is not easy. This is really hard and it takes time.
Karen Kendrick
And when quite a few donors actually want to talk to you, that means two donors are not wanting to talk to you and you have to walk through that.
Hannah Harris
Yes, that’s right. Or more.
Jeff Schreifels
This has been a great conversation. Thank you, Hannah and Alex, for joining us today on this episode. And we hope this has inspired you about the impact you can make when you have a disciplined system and approach to fundraising. And if you’d like to join an upcoming certification course so you can transform your work with donors, we’d love to see you. And the great news is that all of our 2024 courses currently have early bird discounts, so you can get 10% off when you purchase your course. You can find all our upcoming sessions on our website under training or in the show notes. Take care and we’ll see you next time.
Recorded
Thank you for joining us for the Nothing But Major Gifts podcast from Veritus Group. Richard and Jeff also write an ongoing blog that you can subscribe to for free at veritusgroup.com. Please join us again next time.